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  1. TKDer is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 7:40pm


     Style: Kukki-Taekwondo, Yudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    Perhaps living up to the status as a real fighter and bringing honor to your art? Lowering it to the standard of a glorified game of tag is hardly respectable if you ask me.
    Perhaps you didnt read my Inaccurate Criticisms part... In now way is WTF TKD a game of "foot tag". I know and recognize its limitations. Kicking power isn't one of them.
  2. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 9:50pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    K-1 Kickboxing pays better than MMA yet Muay Thai guys move into MMA all the time.

    Same with Boxing. It pays loads better than MMA and you see guys like Nishijima running around.

    I'm not saying there's a line of WTF TKD guys trying to get into K-1, but it's not unheard of. Whether or not the notable TKD guys try it all I don't know, but I don't see any reason they wouldn't whereas Kyokushin and Muay Thai guys would.
  3. TKDer is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 9:54pm


     Style: Kukki-Taekwondo, Yudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is true though that no notable guys have entered MMA or K-1. The most notable WTF TKD fighter to enter a K-1 style competition was Lucio-somethin... A talented Brazilian WTF TKD fighter who was considered "world class" but lacked the skills to hang with the world's greatest WTF TKDers. He did really well. Not sure what his record is/was but he pulled off a lot of good wins against seasoned Muay Thai/Kickboxing fighters.
  4. TKDer is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 9:56pm


     Style: Kukki-Taekwondo, Yudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This point of this post was to discuss WTF TKD's limitations which I am very well aware of and to discuss possible solutions as well as to mention the good and positive and effective parts of WTF TKD that people on here take for granted. This was supposed to be an objective point and I think I did a pretty good job with that.
  5. Tshin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 5:06am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As I see it


    1. If you're going to use hogu to spar with, bring back the bamboo.
    http://www.furiousfilms.com.au/khn-hogu-web.jpg

    2. Head Punching (already talked about)

    3. Kickboxing stance.

    4. Some how try to regulate the schools, maybe have a Mcdojang blacklist or something on the WTF site.

    5.Encourage grappling at your school, all cross training is going to do is make you a better fighter.
  6. Mjelva is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 6:12am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    Perhaps living up to the status as a real fighter and bringing honor to your art? Lowering it to the standard of a glorified game of tag is hardly respectable if you ask me.
    Nothing glorified about TKD.
  7. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 7:18am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Xtschneider
    As I see it


    1. If you're going to use hogu to spar with, bring back the bamboo.
    http://www.furiousfilms.com.au/khn-hogu-web.jpg

    2. Head Punching (already talked about)

    3. Kickboxing stance.

    4. Some how try to regulate the schools, maybe have a Mcdojang blacklist or something on the WTF site.

    5.Encourage grappling at your school, all cross training is going to do is make you a better fighter.
    AKA. "Don't do TKD"

    I'm sad to say my impression is that TKD (and many other styles) have gone so far away from effective fighting that it's just as well to just abandon it and let it die. This is impossible though seeing as people doing TKD here too have a way of clinging on. Loving everything Korean. I may have mentioned before the hilarity of people doing TKD and when looking to crosstrain, then start doing Hapkido.

    So TKD has a shitload of blind sheep all over the world and will never die. But the next best thing is to not give it any credit until it has gotten at least 5% of its "fighters" to an acceptable level through only TKD training. * This way, intelligent or in any way most regular people can understand how and why they should choose a functional MA over TKD and it's like.

    Comment on points in regards with my view:

    1. No comment. Wouldn't make a difference either way.

    2. Headpunching will not be functional in TKD before knockouts are chased after. The game will have to reflect the aim of the match. Is the aim of the match to produce an acrobatic show in which points are measured by risk taken? As of now, yes. Are points removed from realistic fighting to create a showcasing of kicks because this is TKD's happy-land? Yes. Until the game is engineered toward beating your opponent FIGHTING, instead of beating your opponent in a game of foot-tag, TKD will not evolve. Training will not be focused on fighting. Many people want it to be like that, but it effectively removes most martial qualities of any sport.

    Let's take an inherently functional MA. BJJ. Let's say BJJ's primary focus was points given to acrobatic guard passes. Higher points for rolling to Reverse omoplatas and crucifix chokes over the other submission attempts. Let's say getting a submission didn't finish the match, it just racked up points. How about chokes, no more chokes due to the danger of losing consciousness.
    You would get lots of sportfighters training for this. They wouldn't even be close to proper fighting after a while, simply because of the unrealistic pretenses of their method of competition. Why? Because their TRAINING would be changed to match it. BJJ has little to no strikes, and yet the method of training develops actual fighting skill on a certain level. Because of the aim of competition and the aim of training. Hell many people criticize BJJ competions for having become too lax as well, but that's for a different topic.


    3. Kickboxing stance huh. Yeah we did that when I trained TKD. One part of training normal TKD style. The suddenly whammo, time for sparring, now everyone has to learn a new set of moves. But then it's not TKD is it? Why not just kill TKD and do kickboxing? Why keep clinging to this style. It's just a style with misconceptions about fighting, it's not your child, it's not your mother. Want a kickboxing stance? Go do kickboxing or some other functional MA.

    4. the Kukkiwon won't start blacklisting people. They've been giving out retarted honorific belts and **** since the dawn of time. TKD has become a cesspool of the typical MA kindergarten type. And in the end it doesn't even matter if people ARE any good at TKD simply because of the lost functionality of the art.

    5.a) Encourage grappling? Why? Do you know any? Have you trained properly and extensively in it? Are you a certified instructor? What are your merits? Can you be trusted to know what you're talking about? Does your grappling abilities and grappling-instructional abilities match your TKD and TKD-ins. abilities? Would you say to a Judo school "just encourage some TKD training"?

    5.b)You're not talking about actually doing it in your school but about people going to other clubs to train. That's probably great. But how will they or you know what arts to choose? Like I said, TKD people have a jolly good time running out and finding hapkido schools when they want to crosstrain. Which is like the most ironic retarted **** in the world. And then saying that crosstraining can only make you a better fighter. No sirree Bob. Totally depends what you crosstrain in. It even depends on what other art you do originally and how it compliments the art you already train.


    It sucks doesn't it? When an art has fallen so low that most arguments to fix it can be countered simply by abandoning it, letting it fade and commit yourself to something functional worthy of passing on.

    I wish people would let TKD die. But I know I won't see it in my lifetime.

    Now feel free to say I'm trolling or argue my narrow minded ideas. kthx


    -----------------------------------------

    * I say this, safe in the knowledge that it will never happen
    More human than human is our motto.
  8. TKDer is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 7:55am


     Style: Kukki-Taekwondo, Yudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow.. you have a lot of malice towards the art...

    You're entitled to your opinions but please do note that a lot of your "facts" are incorrect. And also, you as well as other people are so preconditioned to think that TKD sucks that you have these misguided precepts and misconceptions about the art. I don't care that you don't like TKD. As I said, this post was what I deemed to be a fair and accurate analysis of WTF TKD.
  9. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 8:22am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm so "preconditioned" I chose to train it once upon a time.

    By all means. This is what I expected.
    More human than human is our motto.
  10. Tshin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 8:47am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fanatical, you're right man. 100% completely in my opinon.

    As far as cross training, I didn't specifically mean just grappling, more of a try different arts too, not just one single striking art. If they wanna go do hapkido by all means I'm not one to stop them. I myself am leaving my TKD dojang and joining up at a Muay Thai gym and a Judo Dojo.

    The art has some serious problems, more so then a lot of other arts. I think one of the problem is practicality. Am i going to do a Round kick ever? Maybe, but am I going to do a 540 turning kick? not if I can help it.
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