Thread: Supplementation Ethics
5/17/2006 3:09am, #41
I'm thinking that, due to my discussion with CNAgy (which was a discussion on semantics, mostly) my position on this issue may not be clear, so, to sum it up:
I'm pro drug legalization, thus, that should include steroids. I mean, it would be dishonest for me to approve people taking cocaine and not steroids.
My main issue with this is that msot people do not research enough what they're taking and what may be the side effects. I know people who did cycles but not post-cycle therapy.
EDIT: AS a side note, possesion in Spain (I mean, possesion of a small quantity of drugs for self consumptiom) is and administrative fault, that means, you can be fined, but not jailed.
Now, dealing is another issue.
Last edited by Lights Out; 5/17/2006 3:12am at .
5/17/2006 10:52am, #42Originally Posted by Meager
5/17/2006 10:53am, #43Originally Posted by Quikfeet509
5/17/2006 11:07am, #44Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
5/17/2006 11:32am, #45Originally Posted by CNagy
If something is still unhealthy in the long run, however, it's going to have negative side effects. If you're swallowing a cup of pure bleach a day every day for several years, you're going to **** yourself up, plain and simple.
5/17/2006 12:08pm, #46
Iocane - the masked man was immune to Iocane.
BUT - i don't know if the immunity plan works on anything besides iocane, fiction.-Jordan
5/17/2006 12:22pm, #47
Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Kansas City - the mecca of civilization
Wow, that is a really poor analogy. Go bench press a couple of kegs!
Pretty much any drug is deadly if you take too much. Hell even water is deadly if you drink too much.
I usually enjoy bashing the whole pharmaceutical drug / FDA scene, but it has yielded a process which theoretically reduces the chance of a person dying from taking a prescription drug. Let's remember that most anabolic steriods are medications and are relatively safe if taken in the context for which they were approved. Now the further you get away from that range the more likely you are to develop a negative outcome.
A couple cycles of steriods a year might be safe while taking a stack that would make a bull add 50 lbs of lean muscle probably isn't.
What the hell are we talking about again?
5/17/2006 1:11pm, #48Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
By your logic, aspirin should not be used, because taking a whole bottle of it will have very harmful effects. Nevermind that a small dose of aspirin every day lowers the risk of heart attack. As I said before, your logic rules out pretty much every medicine of every type available, because anything in high enough quantity is lethal.
Last edited by CNagy; 5/17/2006 1:13pm at .
5/17/2006 1:12pm, #49Originally Posted by theraydiator
5/17/2006 5:54pm, #50Originally Posted by Koto_RyuPaul "Quadzilla" DeMayo. Died at 37 due to a drug overdose.
Okay, for starters, these guys never died from steroid use, they died from Athersclerosis and general CVD. Saying the died from steroid usage is like blaming McDonald's for overweight people's deaths.
CVD claimed 958,775 lives in the United States in 1999. This is 40.1 percent of all deaths.
So did all 958,775 people die because of steroid usage? Or even half? Or a quarter, tenth?
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's National Household Survey on Drug Abuse reports that 1,084,000 adult Americans have reported using steroids...
The more serious liver problems attributed to anabolic steroid use include hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) and peliosis hepatitis (blood-filled sacs within the liver). But the majority of cases reporting liver problems have dealt with extremely sick and elderly patients treated with C-17 alkylated oral steroids for years of continuous use, and many of these patients had a particular type of anemia linked to liver tumors even without anabolic steroid therapy. A computer search of the medical literature looking for steroid-associated liver tumors could find only three in athletes (Friedl, 1990). Of the three athletes, one was using 700 mg of oxymetholone a week for five straight years, and one had a tumor more indicative of classic liver cancer than of steroid-associated tumors. Virtually all of the reported liver problems seemed to occur with the 17 alpha-alkylated oral steroids. There have been no cysts or liver tumors reported in athletes using the 17 beta-esterified injectable steroids (Wright & Cowart, p. 61). It has been noted that injectable steroids generally appear to have little effect on the liver at all (Haupt, 1993, p. 469).
Recent studies continue to suggest that reports of serious adverse effects of anabolic steroids upon the liver in healthy athletes may be highly overstated. In a study of athletes, of the 53 current or past steroid users who underwent laboratory testing, only one subject displayed an abnormal liver test (Pope & Katz, 1994, p. 379; incidentally, on physical examination, not one user displayed evidence of any major abnormalities possibly attributable to steroids, such as high blood pressure, edema, acne or hair loss.) Another study tested one of the most powerful and reputedly dangerously toxic anabolic steroids for 30 weeks on HIV positive men and women (Hengge et al.). Oxymetholone, formerly known as Anadrol in the U.S. and a C-17 alkylated oral steroid, was administered in a dosage of over 1,000 mg per week (more than that used by many bodybuilders, and for a much longer duration of uninterrupted use). The results were significant gains in lean muscle mass -- even without any weightlifting. Even more importantly - and surprisingly -- there were no significant problems with liver function, water retention, or virilization side effects (it will be interesting to see whether further studies yield consistent findings at such high dosages).How cardiac risk might be increased by the use of steroids is a subject of speculation and some controversy. High blood pressure is perhaps "one of the most exaggerated claims" of steroid-related health risks, and remains unconfirmed despite numerous studies (Friedl, 1993, pp. 119-120). Regarding blood lipid levels, oral steroids in particular seem to cause a reduction in HDL (high-density lipoprotein cholesterol) levels in some steroid users. However, changes in the blood lipid levels now appear to begin to recover within about a month after discontinued use, and, in fact, most studies do not report an increase in total cholesterol (Yesalis & Cowart, p. 54).
In examining cardiovascular risks, often cited is a case report by (R.A. McNutt, et al, 1988), concerning a 22-year-old steroid-using weightlifter who experienced a sudden heart attack. While often held out by anti-steroid authorities as the "smoking gun" connecting steroid use to heart attacks, a reading of the actual report reveals that the subject weighed 330 pounds and had a total serum cholesterol of a whopping 596 mg/dl! The fact that so few similar case studies exist may well indicate that the condition of this individual was hardly representative of the majority of athletes who use steroids. (Nonetheless, all strength athletes, including steroid users, should regularly monitor serum cholesterol. Obviously, this poor fellow didn't get his cholesterol to 596 overnight, and it is not reported when he last visited a physician prior to his heart attack. To what extent our nation's criminalization approach to steroids, which discourages steroid-users from seeing doctors, contributed to this result is open to speculation.)
Last edited by Equipoise; 5/17/2006 5:58pm at .