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  1. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    São Paulo, Brazil
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    5,426

    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 11:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    Upper body throws don't count as actual grappling techniques? I would say the throws in MT are...high level?...and thus aren't very effective for guys who train other stuff most of the time.
    Alright, you got me there. Still, by grappling I meant hip throws and takedowns: I can´t see how the MT clinch could be used the way they use it at MT competitions if hit throws and takedowns were allowed.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  2. Mr.Mundane is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2005
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    Your wife's closet
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    314

    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 11:46am


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread is an abortion.
  3. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    São Paulo, Brazil
    Posts
    5,426

    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 11:56am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Truth hurts.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 12:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Mundane
    This thread is an abortion.
    Abortions have a peculiar habit of dying. Therefore, a __ng __un thread cannot be an abortion.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  5. Lights Out is offline

    Senior Member

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    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,173

    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 3:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Well, I did two years of Lee Shing Wing Chun, and I´ve done a grand total of two years and three months of Muay Thai (and counting).

    I would say the MT clinch is easier to apply against a skilled fighter than the WC trapping, for the same reasons that it is easy to grapple someone who doesn´t want to be grappled: closing distance is relatively easy compared to keeping distance. And trapping relies on keeping distance.

    To be entirely honest, however, personally I dislike both "ranges" of combat, because, as a former judoka, I see both trapping and clinching as excellent opportunities for throws. I believe the only reason the MT clinch is used effectively, the way it is used in MT competitions, is related to rules forbidding the use of actual grappling techniques.

    As for trapping, well...either you use that expression as a synonym for outflanking (and in that case it is both relevant and useful) or you use it to designate the WC practice of "fencing" with your arms in order to control the opponent´s arms, which I really don´ t see as being remotely useful against someone reasonably skilled.
    So, in the end, there is at least something salvageable form _ing _un.

    Thanks.
  6. TheSparrow is offline

    Registered Member

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    Nov 2005
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    UK
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    434

    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 4:30pm


     Style: Shutting up and training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    I would say the clinch is easier to apply against a skilled fighter than the WC trapping, for the same reasons that it is easy to grapple someone who doesn´t want to be grappled: closing distance is relatively easy compared to keeping distance. And trapping relies on keeping distance.
    Yes, this is very well put. Sums it up perfectly, IMO.
  7. I aint punchy!? is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    686

    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 9:10pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WC is a big system and many styles HAVE NO CHI SAO IN THEM WHATSOEVER!

    So defining WC based on chi-sao techniques just doesn't work...


    Having said this... most of your arguments work for the kind of WC which DTT and others are proponents of.

    Perhaps I should make a new thread on why I think WC is grappling
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