A thought on _ing _un, and why it sucks (maybe more of a historical question?)

[WingChun Lawyer]

Upper body throws don't count as actual grappling techniques? I would say the throws in MT are...high level?...and thus aren't very effective for guys who train other stuff most of the time.

Alright, you got me there. Still, by grappling I meant hip throws and takedowns: I can´t see how the MT clinch could be used the way they use it at MT competitions if hit throws and takedowns were allowed.

[Mr.Mundane]

This thread is an abortion.

[WingChun Lawyer]

Truth hurts.

[Tom Kagan]

This thread is an abortion.

Abortions have a peculiar habit of dying. Therefore, a __ng __un thread cannot be an abortion.

[Lights Out]

Well, I did two years of Lee Shing Wing Chun, and I´ve done a grand total of two years and three months of Muay Thai (and counting).

I would say the MT clinch is easier to apply against a skilled fighter than the WC trapping, for the same reasons that it is easy to grapple someone who doesn´t want to be grappled: closing distance is relatively easy compared to keeping distance. And trapping relies on keeping distance.

To be entirely honest, however, personally I dislike both "ranges" of combat, because, as a former judoka, I see both trapping and clinching as excellent opportunities for throws. I believe the only reason the MT clinch is used effectively, the way it is used in MT competitions, is related to rules forbidding the use of actual grappling techniques.

As for trapping, well...either you use that expression as a synonym for outflanking (and in that case it is both relevant and useful) or you use it to designate the WC practice of "fencing" with your arms in order to control the opponent´s arms, which I really don´ t see as being remotely useful against someone reasonably skilled.

So, in the end, there is at least something salvageable form _ing _un.

Thanks.

[TheSparrow]

I would say the clinch is easier to apply against a skilled fighter than the WC trapping, for the same reasons that it is easy to grapple someone who doesn´t want to be grappled: closing distance is relatively easy compared to keeping distance. And trapping relies on keeping distance.

Yes, this is very well put. Sums it up perfectly, IMO.

[I aint punchy!?]

WC is a big system and many styles HAVE NO CHI SAO IN THEM WHATSOEVER!

So defining WC based on chi-sao techniques just doesn't work...


Having said this... most of your arguments work for the kind of WC which DTT and others are proponents of.

Perhaps I should make a new thread on why I think WC is grappling