5/16/2006 1:26am, #31Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
From A Brief History of Wing Chung, by Steven Eagling:
"It was in the Spring of 2006 that several Wing Chun practitioners discovered a new bil gee, or 'death touch'. Practicing their 'sticky hands' on their fishing trawler as their forefathers and foremothers had done for centuries, one of the fishermen used his fishing hook to attack his opponent. The results were devastating - the hook penetrated the man's soft bicep, taking with it most of the major nerves of the middle and upper arm. It was decided that having hooks permanently attached to the hand would make for better 'Iron Palm', and better bil gee. This proposal was adopted by Wing Chun adepts the world over, with many re-entering the noble fishing profession. The 'Pirate Style' had truly come full circle." (p.237)Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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5/16/2006 5:37am, #32
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
I ain't punchy stated.
If we compare the Yip Man style of WC against other styles from Guong Zhou and Foshan provinces theres some pretty major differences.
It is an interesting theory. From the little I know about WC, it was originally intended to be a simplified fighting art that one was supposed to be able to gain proficiency with in a short amount of time. How it went from that to an art that one must spend years on to master is an interesting development in itself.
Personally, I think that one of the problems with some CMAs and perhaps TMAs is too many suspicious sifus/senseis who insist on teaching shitty interpretations to most of their students as though the techniques were some state secret. Shitty interpretation is then piled on top of shitty interpretation. Over decades, even the originally good versions become shitty.
The one day, a more atheltic student of one of the shitty versions cleans house on the ones who learned the good version. Rinse and repeat.
5/16/2006 8:49am, #33Originally Posted by I aint punchy!?
And I suppose your theory makes sense, yes. WC´s base is not agile enough for effective striking, and its strikes are not powerful enough for that either - but, I suppose chain punches, straight line punches and low kicks could be used effectively to defend the fighter against a striker long enough to set up a throw. And a solid base would help you keep off the ground yourself.
And to be fair, I did learn some throws in my time studying Lee Shing Lineage Wing Chun. They looked a lot like koshi guruma and other judo throws.
As for your reference to Yip Man and other Wing Chun lineages, I did hear some Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun guys stating that the Yip Man style was indeed shitty, and the real deal mostly stayed in the mainlaind - BUT, they claim THEIR Wing Chun (which is supposed to be the real deal, of course) is actually more of a kickboxing style of fighting, with hooks, jabs and crosses.
But that is a can of worms I do not feel inclined to open myself, mainly because I don´t have the data to argue about it.That civilisation may not sink,
Its great battle lost,
Quiet the dog, tether the pony
To a distant post;
Our master Caesar is in the tent
Where the maps are spread,
His eyes fixed upon nothing,
A hand under his head.
- W.B. Yeats
5/16/2006 7:16pm, #34
Originally Posted by Firebrand
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
Ghoung Zhou style WC is noted for the fact that practitioners often have a very stooped stance. I'm not an expert on their reasons for doing this, but it may be a form of greater protection for the throat, neck and head. Perhaps its from some association with a mantis style. I'm not sure. Otherwise it seems to have more in common as a rule with Foshan province WC.
Yip Man WC is quite different all together with almost no focus on stand-up grappling, grabbing... perhaps some sweeps but not many... with the primary focus on a close-range striking style. I believe this came from Yip Man's own interests when he learnt Foshan style WC, and it was what he was comfortable teaching etc. This now has become the standard, and may well have eaten up Foshan/Guong Zhou styles in those provinces.
As for HFY WC... this looks like Yip Man style WC through and through based on their goat riding stance and block-hit mentality. It looks like garden variety WC with bonus myth.
5/17/2006 12:49am, #35
One thing I suspect when it comes to _ing _un sucking in real fighting is this:
(I have no real sources or evidence its just a hunch)
Somewhere along the line focus was shifted from the swords to unarmed fighting. Chi-sao soon became a dominating training method. As the need for actual fighting decreased chi-sao became the actual target activity and most things became optimized for working in chi-sao and not in actual fighting.
5/17/2006 1:42pm, #36Originally Posted by Astrosmurf52 blocks documentary: arrived
"Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White
5/17/2006 9:32pm, #37
I will be honest, I find these "was designed for canoes!" a bit of post hoc apologetics--I think I will develop a close-sitting-style that was "designed for being attacked in the outhouse!"
5/17/2006 9:35pm, #38
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
But...but..the Red Junk Opera Troop...what about the poles used on barges and ... other stuff?He who attains his ideal by that very fact transcends it- Nietzsche
I like my Te like I like my tea- from Fujian province and without any bullshit in it. Oh, and green. And scented with jasmine blossoms...
Originally Posted by A Better American Than You
5/17/2006 9:52pm, #39
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
Um, the fishing boats often used in Southern China are just shaped logs or rafts that you stand on, with a basket tied to them. They used poles to move about, carrying 10 or more Comerants to do the fishing for them.
So, The "clamping" stance was very usefully to hold you onto the log. Pushing around with a pole, and steering via the torso and legs turning the log/raft, would be a fishermens strong muscle groups.
So, A smart fishermen would try to create a self defense that capitialized on these traits. I don't think it is so much that they needed to fight on the logs or boats, but more that the southern short styles where capitializing on the strengths they allready had.
"If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau EventUntil the Bulltube is fixed:DTT vs Sirc
5/17/2006 10:23pm, #40
Do not buy it.
"Then western boxing developed a bowlegged stance because most spent their time on horses. . . ."
Unless someone has a actual evidence of fighting in these situations that necessitated such, it reads like too much post hoc analysis to me.