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  1. I aint punchy!? is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 6:31pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What a load.... again it is a whole bunch of people who have no real idea about the fighting style that WC requires in order to be effective.

    Its not a goat-riding stance for combat the idea here is an isometric stance for the legs... standard fair in most CMAs.

    WC isn't focused mainly on striking it is an art that stands in the middle of stand-up grappling and striking, with the aim to avoid being punched in the head/face while you close and do a throw, sweep or an unbalancing kick or punch... hence the focus on the centreline, arm control, having one arm out to fend off stuff etc. It has a range of throws that most people don't know much about, and a whole plethora of clinch-like movements.

    Arguing that its for boatmen is a little silly -- don't confuse applicability with causality.

    Most of the Wing Chun out there was learnt from a book by some chinese nerd, or is pretending to be passed directly down the line from some great GM. This is of course not how good MAs are preserved.
  2. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 8:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    IAP, what you said actually may be the only decent clue I ever heard on WCs original applicability. A kind of judo with some elbows and some kicks would be more believable than a shitty striking style.

    Then again, if you want to go down that road, you would need to ask yourself...if WC is mostly a grappling style, where did the groundfighting go?

    Personally, I blame Wing Chun on the chinese. No, really. Wing Chun could only be the product of a culture which preserved itself without any major changes for thousands of years by encouraging intellectual evolution based on the memorization of classical texts.

    I mean, come on. They invented gunpowder before anybody else, and they only used it for fireworks. I would say they did the same with hand to hand fighting skills: fireworks are related to guns in the same way that Wing Chun is related to actual fighting.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  3. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 9:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    IAP, what you said actually may be the only decent clue I ever heard on WCs original applicability. A kind of judo with some elbows and some kicks would be more believable than a shitty striking style.

    Then again, if you want to go down that road, you would need to ask yourself...if WC is mostly a grappling style, where did the groundfighting go?

    Personally, I blame Wing Chun on the chinese. No, really. Wing Chun could only be the product of a culture which preserved itself without any major changes for thousands of years by encouraging intellectual evolution based on the memorization of classical texts.

    I mean, come on. They invented gunpowder before anybody else, and they only used it for fireworks. I would say they did the same with hand to hand fighting skills: fireworks are related to guns in the same way that Wing Chun is related to actual fighting.
    Every time you submit a post the world gets dumber.
  4. I aint punchy!? is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 10:11pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I like your tangent and it does have some applicability. If I remember correctly the Chinese around the 14th C had far superior ship building technology and sailed around India and up into Africa and to the bottom of Europe. With this technology they could have settled the world, like the Europeans did later. However, as soon as the fleet went home the new Emperor had the fleet and all their records burnt... and made it against the law for Chinese to travel outside China... thats just one case of what you're talking about.

    And you may be right about WC -- you're definitely right about how CMAs are nowadays, with more emphasis on who taught you and not a fighter's personal experience in fighting.

    Back to the topic at hand:

    If we compare the Yip Man style of WC against other styles from Guong Zhou and Foshan provinces theres some pretty major differences. So lets not take Yip Man as the ultimate authority on WC -- in my opinion he has done a lot more harm than good... his students have tried to push their own brand of WC and have tried to use their lineage claims to authenticate their own unfight tested nonsense.

    Every style of MA has a 'style of fighting'. This is the central tactic that is used. BJJ the idea is to take someone to the ground and fight them there. Judo is to throw someone hard and if they are still with it then perhaps ground fight. MT its to stand at a range and throw bombs and evade.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say what I think the 'style of fighting' of WC is:

    WC is focused on bridging the gap on strikers. It has no real prescribed long range footwork. Hands can be kept up or to the sides, and may be on the centreline or not (based on more than just YM WC styles). The idea is to get control of an arm with a block, move into the side of the opponent and deliver a sweep or a throw. A lot of work is done on the balance, and the aim is not to go down as well, but to attack the prone opponent. Hence the peculiar footwork of WC. Punching and kicking are of a similar focus, with the aim being to break the balance of the opponent so that they can't throw a counter punch or kick, or to cover the WCer so that they can close and throw/sweep.

    Groundwork would be great in the mix here... but as far as I can tell its not there. I imagine that this was due to cultural reasons...
  5. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 10:24pm

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     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kxfour
    I posted this here simply because I don't tink a _ing _un thread could survive in any other section!

    I have recently abandonded my _ing _un training and switched to a new school that trains MMA and BJJ, (and I would never go back) but I had a thought - _ing _un surely couldn't have been the bullshido it is today a few hundred years ago, right? I have a suspicion that it at one point involved a lot of grappling (or at least crappling), purely based on that fact that a lot of wing chun moves seem viable in the mount or reverse point position, or in many other grappling situations, whereas they are laugable in a standing form.

    Did this occur to anyone else? My god I think i've stumbled upon the truth behind why _ing _un's modern incarnation is absolute crap!

    And beyond this - has anyone truly tried to mix serious _ing _un (I know that's funny, but humor me) and grappling (or at least crappling)? All variants i've seen are either just to make money or to make minor yet futile revisions, but no one seems truly interested in improving the art.
    This person should not be able to start threads.
  6. I aint punchy!? is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 10:31pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Agreed. Needs the op.
  7. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2006 11:19pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    "Wing Chun: Great for Pirates."
    nice one DAYoung, you have yet to let me down.

    "Damnit Steve, you are not a Pirate!!!!!!.....stop trying to touch me with your sticky hands"
  8. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2006 1:03am

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    nice one DAYoung, you have yet to let me down.

    "Damnit Steve, you are not a Pirate!!!!!!.....stop trying to touch me with your sticky hands"
    Heh.

    From A Brief History of Wing Chung, by Steven Eagling:

    "It was in the Spring of 2006 that several Wing Chun practitioners discovered a new bil gee, or 'death touch'. Practicing their 'sticky hands' on their fishing trawler as their forefathers and foremothers had done for centuries, one of the fishermen used his fishing hook to attack his opponent. The results were devastating - the hook penetrated the man's soft bicep, taking with it most of the major nerves of the middle and upper arm. It was decided that having hooks permanently attached to the hand would make for better 'Iron Palm', and better bil gee. This proposal was adopted by Wing Chun adepts the world over, with many re-entering the noble fishing profession. The 'Pirate Style' had truly come full circle." (p.237)
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon

  9. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2006 1:04am

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    nice one DAYoung, you have yet to let me down.

    "Damnit Steve, you are not a Pirate!!!!!!.....stop trying to touch me with your sticky hands"
    Heh.

    From A Brief History of Wing Chung, by Steven Eagling:

    "It was in the Spring of 2006 that several Wing Chun practitioners discovered a new bil gee, or 'death touch'. Practicing their 'sticky hands' on their fishing trawler as their forefathers and foremothers had done for centuries, one of the fishermen used his fishing hook to attack his opponent. The results were devastating - the hook penetrated the man's soft bicep, taking with it most of the major nerves of the middle and upper arm. It was decided that having hooks permanently attached to the hand would make for better 'Iron Palm', and better bil gee. This proposal was adopted by Wing Chun adepts the world over, with many re-entering the noble fishing profession. The 'Pirate Style' had truly come full circle." (p.237)
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon

  10. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2006 1:07am

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    nice one DAYoung, you have yet to let me down.

    "Damnit Steve, you are not a Pirate!!!!!!.....stop trying to touch me with your sticky hands"
    Heh.

    From A Brief History of Wing Chung, by Steven Eagling:

    "It was in the Spring of 2006 that several Wing Chun practitioners discovered a new bil gee, or 'death touch'. Practicing their 'sticky hands' on their fishing trawler as their forefathers and foremothers had done for centuries, one of the fishermen used his fishing hook to attack his opponent. The results were devastating - the hook penetrated the man's soft bicep, taking with it most of the major nerves of the middle and upper arm. It was decided that having hooks permanently attached to the hand would make for better 'Iron Palm', and better bil gee. This proposal was adopted by Wing Chun adepts the world over, with many re-entering the noble fishing profession. The 'Pirate Style' had truly come full circle." (p.237)
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon

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