Thornton Redoes Iceland - Why We Train

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 5/13/2006 2:01am

Matt Thornton returns to Iceland to speak about why people train in functional martial arts, what is lost when patterns and rituals become training methods, what happens when you train a dead art with aliveness, and a guaranteed way to ruin BJJ

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...76475130093551

It's slow while he's asking them questions but it picks up at about the 5 minute mark.

**Mjelva** · Posted On: 5/13/2006 10:01am

Mjölni!

**Skutai** · Posted On: 5/15/2006 8:49am

"really powerful yoga"
"I don't care if you can fight"
"martial arts is not about... self-defense"

I can see his point about correographed techniques, and about the evolution of martial arts in MMA, but not how it relates to this powerful yoga he's searching for. Yoga is a solo activity the last time I checked. Anyone care to clarify?

**Matt Thornton** · Posted On: 5/15/2006 7:11pm

Hello all. . . .I appreciate the good words.

Regards:

"really powerful yoga"
"I don't care if you can fight"
"martial arts is not about... self-defense"

I can see his point about correographed techniques, and about the evolution of martial arts in MMA, but not how it relates to this powerful yoga he's searching for. Yoga is a solo activity the last time I checked. Anyone care to clarify?

Yoga as it is thought of in the West is primarily excercise. That is usually the Hatha type Yoga we all know. However, in the context of that discussion I was using Yoga in the broader sense, by which it has been used in India for Thousands of Years. There is Karma Yoga (service), Bhakti Yoga (devotion), Jnani Yoga (inquiry into the mind), etc. It is a very different use of the word.

The objective of Yoga is union. . .union with the moment, with reality, with what is now. BJJ is in that sense can be a very powerful Yoga. As can other sports. Joseph Campbell and Abraham Maslow both wrote brilliantly on this subject. But more importantly it is something people can and do experience first hand for themselves daily on the mat.

www.straightblastgym.com

**Phrost** · Posted On: 5/15/2006 9:38pm

Always a pleasure to have you around Matt. The vids Aesopian has been posting are the best way to get across the concept of aliveness to people short of just punching them in the face (which despite being immensely gratifying probably wouldn't be very practical).

**Olorin** · Posted On: 5/15/2006 10:36pm

**DokterVet** · Posted On: 5/15/2006 10:57pm

While the gi is a useful tool for training for self-defense, Thornton doesn't seem to advocate martial arts as self-defense. But he doesn't seem to be only interested in MMA either; rather he seems to advocate alive training for its own sake. I wonder what reason he would give for using a gi.

And as a side note, the older video of him doing a seminar in iceland was recently posted at karateforums, and started a bit of discussion before the entire thread was deleted without warning by the mods. God forbid training methods be evaluated.

**Phrost** · Posted On: 5/15/2006 10:58pm

I don't know, most people wear clothing that's applicable to the grips you learn by doing gi training.

Oh, and Republicans; lol.

**BoardHitBack** · Posted On: 5/16/2006 5:36am

Originally Posted by Olorin

The comment on President Bush was unnecessary and could needlessly alienate people to his message of Aliveness. Ditto on his comment about the Catholic Church, “just kidding” is way to say something that you really believe and then slip away from defending it. If you shake the Gracie family tree, more than one Catholic would fall from the branches. Religion and politics are not related to Martial Arts.

Only stupid people would be alienated to his martial arts oriented message of Aliveness because they held a differing religious or political belief to him. Especially if they were aware that religion and politics are not related to martial arts. If someone were to acknowledge religion and politics have nothing to do with martial arts, whilst listing an instructor's throwaway barely political comments as flaw in his teaching, that person would probably look like a clown.

**Skutai** · Posted On: 5/16/2006 7:02am

Originally Posted by Matt Thornton

Yoga as it is thought of in the West is primarily excercise. That is usually the Hatha type Yoga we all know. However, in the context of that discussion I was using Yoga in the broader sense, by which it has been used in India for Thousands of Years. There is Karma Yoga (service), Bhakti Yoga (devotion), Jnani Yoga (inquiry into the mind), etc. It is a very different use of the word.

The objective of Yoga is union. . .union with the moment, with reality, with what is now. BJJ is in that sense can be a very powerful Yoga. As can other sports. Joseph Campbell and Abraham Maslow both wrote brilliantly on this subject. But more importantly it is something people can and do experience first hand for themselves daily on the mat.

Thanks for the response.

I feel I have a better grasp of what you were trying to convey in the earlier video (in front of the Icelandic Karate class) than this one. In the first, Aliveness was effectively argued as a path to real fighting skill and a foil to correographed "dead" techniques. I couldn't agree more.

With this video, I thought you were contradictory since you de-emphasized self-defense but ended the discussion talking about MMA and how traditional martial arts have failed. It seems that you had distilled the study of martial arts down to a search for this powerful form of yoga which sounds quasi-spiritual, or at least a moment of perfect clarity/focus that can't be attained without athetic competition. Was that your message or have I misinterpreted?

Cheers