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  1. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 5:36pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    Drills provide physical conditioning. Fighting provides mental conditioning.

    Both are important, but post-analysis, watching others, studying strategy manuals, etc, can all help contribute to and help maintain the mental conditioning.
    Man, you may want to reconsider what you said there. You're a inch short of saying that you can learn to fight reading books.

    BTW, you should stop trying to sell us the importance of drilling. You're preaching to the converted, we already know its importance.

    One of the mottos of this site is the importance of sparring in developing fighting skills.

    Maybe you can get to a point were your figthing skills are so good that you only need to spar once in a while to keep you sharp. But it takes years of practice (and lots of sparring and actually fighting) to achieve that level.

    If you wanna go into a debate of what is sparring and how would be a good metodology to incorprote it, fine.

    But remmember that my first point wasn't (and has never been) that drilling is useless.

    It was that drilling alone is not enough.
  2. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 5:53pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lights Out
    Man, you may want to reconsider what you said there. You're a inch short of saying that you can learn to fight reading books.

    BTW, you should stop trying to sell us the importance of drilling. You're preaching to the converted, we already know its importance.

    One of the mottos of this site is the importance of sparring in developing fighting skills.

    Maybe you can get to a point were your figthing skills are so good that you only need to spar once in a while to keep you sharp. But it takes years of practice (and lots of sparring and actually fighting) to achieve that level.

    If you wanna go into a debate of what is sparring and how would be a good metodology to incorprote it, fine.

    But remmember that my first point wasn't (and has never been) that drilling is useless.

    It was that drilling alone is not enough.
    And my point is that fighting helps and is necesarry, but isn't AS important as drilling.

    And by AS important, I mean, you don't dedicate AS much time to the actual activity.

    I'm not selling anything, though.

    Hell, I'm not even arguing at this point.

    I'm just waiting for dinner.
  3. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 6:01pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Therein is where I think you are either wrong, or your understanding of sparring is different from mine.

    Let me just give you what I understand as a drill and sparring. Take Judo for example. We drill our throws via what's called ukemi. You repeat the drills again and again, but you never complete the throw on your partner. You work the details, the footwork, the foot sweeps, the pulling, the hard contact your hips or elbows need to do on your partner's body to umbalance him. You switch roles back and forth with your partner.

    Then there is the same repetion, the same drills done 10 times, but on the last time, you actually throw your partner. You can decide to execute the throw full force or in a more controlled manner if your partner is still not good enough at breaking the falls in a safe manner.

    The same drills above can be done while both participants are stationary, or if they agree, they can do so while moving.

    Then there is the same drills but against two partners. You actually go full force against your partner, while another person is holding your partner so that you cannot throw him no matter how you hard you try. And you try hard, and your partner gets hit in the process. That's what I could call a power drills.

    But that doesn't compare to sparring. Once you sparr, you go balls out short of trying to **** him up. You try to do your best to win while your opponent (no longer your partner) tries the best to counter you and to win over you.

    He is where sparring is differnent from a drill. There are no pre-arranged movements and techniques in sparring. It's controlled, but UNPREDICTABLE. A drill is predictable, a sparring session is not independently of its intensity.

    You won't get hurt in a drill unless you or your partner are careless. In sparring, your chances of getting hurt will increase as the intensity of it increases. But the key feature of sparring is that it should be as unpredictable as possible in a way that allows you to practice and learn.

    He, it's the nature of the beast.
    Okay, let's just define terms.

    Fight = engage with an opponent with the single goal of defeating them by any means available.

    Drill = perform fight-like movements with the goal of training your body to do something

    Solo Form/kata/drill = a drill that makes use of a series of movements connected in sequence to train the body to do something and train the mind to maintain focus

    Partner Form/kata/drill = a drill that makes use of a predetermined series of movements connected in sequence that simulate practical application of fight-like movements, their neutralizations, counters, and application with a partner

    Sparring = a drill that makes use of non-predetermined series of movements similar to a partner form, but with the goal of applying techniques

    As we've already ascertained, there are many gradiations on the scale of sparring, but each one shares the common goal of learning from the excercise vs. defeating the opponent.


    It's not that I think "sparring" is different than you think "sparring" is.

    It's that I think "fighting" is different than you think "fighting" is.

    Unless I'm attempting to defeat my opponent by any means available, I am not fighting. If I'm attempting to learn from the excercise, it's sparring. If I'm attempting to learn, it's drilling.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 8:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Let me just give you what I understand as a drill and sparring. Take Judo for example. We drill our throws via what's called ukemi.
    He, after several hours of my post, I just realized I wrote ukemi when I mean uchikomi. What a fucktard :eusa_doh: :seppuku:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/14/2006 8:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    Unless I'm attempting to defeat my opponent by any means available, I am not fighting. If I'm attempting to learn from the excercise, it's sparring. If I'm attempting to learn, it's drilling.
    So if a police officer or a bouncer restrains an unruly person by just doing an armlock, a choke or by just pinning him down until he calms down or passes out instead of fucking him by every means and methods known by the restrainer, does that mean then that the restraining person is not fighting?

    ...not that I'm saying that's what you are saying, but just to point out you need to put more details in your arguments. The methods that are acceptable are defined by the context in which the confrontation is taking place.

    *** EDIT ***

    I would write more, but my PC has just been infected by a fucking malware (spysherif - win.trojan.Z.32.exe) and it's bringing it to its knees. Where the **** this **** came from?????
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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