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  1. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 1:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    Well hell. I can't seem to get my point across. I didn't mean to imply that the difference could be simplified to grips vs. no grips. All I'm saying is that I agree with Gumby when he says they are a major factor in gi and not as much in no-gi, and that this doesn't necessarily prove that using the gi is a more technical aspect of the grappling.
    I know. I wasn't singling you out.
    To me it isn't just the grips, it isn't just the pace. It is more that you have to do things "right" in regards to escapes and some other aspects other things. Conversely your positioning has to be better and "more right" nogi, as does your setup for subs and your technique.
  2. Pandinha is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 1:53pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I know. I wasn't singling you out.
    To me it isn't just the grips, it isn't just the pace. It is more that you have to do things "right" in regards to escapes and some other aspects other things. Conversely your positioning has to be better and "more right" nogi, as does your setup for subs and your technique.
    I think back about fights I've been in the past, and I feel I'd rather have GI training than none, but prefer both.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  3. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
    Fighting Cephalopod's Avatar

    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 3:07pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    I can escape submission attempts in no-gi merely due to strength and slipperiness. The same subs by the same people will catch me in a gi due merely to friction. You have to do things right in the gi.
    Conversely, you can catch someone in a sub in gi due merely to friction, whereas in no-gi it would have to be locked in much tighter in order to prevent them from escaping with strength and slipperiness. You have to do things right without the gi.

    It works both ways. If it's harder to escape and defend in the gi, your escapes and defense will get better. If it's harder to submit and control in no gi, your submissions and control will get better.
  4. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 3:12pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of my really fond moments was going into a no gi day at the GA, and giving a purple belt a hella of a time rolling. He got me with an armbar, but didn't believe at the time I only had 3 months of training.

    I just bucked and musculed through everything, ala controlled spas boy.

    The next week he got me in gi class and tapped me like a drum.

    Ahhh, the mammmoories! :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 3:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    It works both ways. If it's harder to escape and defend in the gi, your escapes and defense will get better. If it's harder to submit and control in no gi, your submissions and control will get better.
    You do realize I said that, right?

    Both are fun. Both are good.
  6. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 3:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i don't think anybody is suggesting that no gi focused people should spend more time on gi than no gi, but rather that they shouldn't spend all of their time no gi.

    personally, i see no reason not to do both. it highlights weaknesses in one's game, and provides food for thought.
    Marcello seemed to say he trains predominantly in Gi. Which in my eyes makes him friggin amazing.
    More human than human is our motto.
  7. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/11/2006 7:38pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gi forces you to getter better at your escapes. No-gi forces you to get better at your controls.

    I think you should do both to be a well-rounded grappler. I personally find gi to be more fun. However in summer we switch to no-gi for a few months and I quite enjoy changing things up. No-gi allows me to get easier underhooks and so I get to work my hooking sweeps more. It also forces me to work my leglocking game and my back-control game more because I can't do my gi chokes from side control.
  8. PoleFighter is offline

    Professional Swede

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2006 9:47am


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with Aesopians viewpoint. No-gi forces you to learn how to control your opponent in ways that are not dependant on the cloth, for example, in turn making you aware of how important hip-control and positioning are. Rolling no-gi also made me aware of underhooks and how they could be used to a much greater extent. It also made me appreciate the back-mount position alot more, so I know that rolling no-gi has added to my gi-game.
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
  9. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2006 10:12am

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    stupid question, but what's keeping anyone from practicing no-gi techniques while wearing a gi? i'm pretty sure you're allowed to not grip the gi if you want to work on no-gi stuff.
  10. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2006 10:23am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    stupid question, but what's keeping anyone from practicing no-gi techniques while wearing a gi? i'm pretty sure you're allowed to not grip the gi if you want to work on no-gi stuff.
    Lots of things don't work due to your opponents grips. I'm going to have trouble playing my no gi game is he's got me in his spider guard.

    Another example, turning towards trapped leg in half guard no gi, start of setup for a sweep. Gi, often gets me choked out when he reaches round with his opposite hand.
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