Put before the Inquisitors: An Indictment of Lockflow.com

***jnp*** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 2:05pm

Originally Posted by fireplug50

What kind of solution for Lockflow would you suggest?

-Fireplug

Put the techniques up for approval/disapproval by the public. Gauge interest as well as skill level of the folks perusing your site (This is the case already, yes?).

Employ an aggresive moderator(s), who is knowledgeable in grappling, ignore everyone's input. After he judges the technique based on it's technical merit, the moderator then explains his reasoning and the move is deleted or kept on the site.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 2:06pm

Originally Posted by fireplug50

That is very true. As someone who does not typically cruise MA forums that could very well be true. I actually agree that it would be a huge mistake to see the Lockflow database as a primer for good techniques, and not a reference for "things that may get a tap, but probably won't".

What kind of solution for Lockflow would you suggest?

-Fireplug

Heavier moderation of technique. Maybe a Hall of Shame for spectacularly awful techniques (though that would probably be a bad idea, since it would discourage contribution). It would be nice to see techniques that are blatantly terrible thrown out immediately. Perhaps peer review by good grapplers before submitted techniques are even allowed on the site, assuming they don't already do this (I'm hoping it is not the case, as I don't see how techniques like the "Bulgerian Headlock" or the god awful can opener from the bottom of guard could possibly have made it past peer review). Sanctions for users that consistently submit worthless crap might help.

I would like to see encouragement by the staff urging the user base to be more realistic. A few administrative notices to the effect that they want this website to be known as a repository for solid technique, not gimmicky junk would be nice.

Basically, trim the fat and try hard to encourage lean, healthy growth.

I hope you understand that I am genuinely upset about the state of things on their website, and not just looking to be an asshole and make fun of the work they do. That's why this thread is in our dedicated and heavily moderated grappling forum, and not a more general subforum where grapplers and non-grapplers alike are free to take potshots at the website in question.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 2:09pm

Originally Posted by jnp

Put the techniques up for approval/disapproval by the public. Gauge interest as well as skill level of the folks perusing your site (This is the case already, yes?).

Employ an aggresive moderator(s), who is knowledgeable in grappling, ignore everyone's input. After he judges the technique based on it's technical merit, the moderator then explains his reasoning and the move is deleted or kept on the site.

Excellent suggestions.

The sad thing is, you're allowed to rate techniques on the site. But the ratings are clearly meaningless when "superguard" gets 5 out of 5 stars. I'm suggesting that people have be brutal in their ratings and reviews, but Jesus Tapdancing Christ . . . 5 stars?

Edit: I'm going to visit the parents for a few days, so I may be out of touch for awhile. I may not be able to answer any questions or PMs until the weekend.

**Camus** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 2:28pm

lol @ superguard, although I have had strong n00bs try to squeeze me to death from guard: kicks the **** out of the sqeezer's leg muscles, while being mildly uncomfortable for the squeezee.

Here's my real question: what's with everyone grappling shirtless at this place?

How many of you guys do this at your gym? It can get pretty humid and the weather is warming up here, but everywhere I've been it's generally considered the unspoken rule to always wear a shirt while grappling (unless you've a gi overtop of course). Sure if guys are training for an MMA fight they might when they're mixing up strikes and guys will take off their shirt to wipe down after class, but never during rolling or drilling.

Am I alone in this experience?

**Fighting Cephalopod** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 4:08pm

Superguard looks like a riblock I was taught early in my career, except the guy's doing it wrong.

His arms are on his thighs, when they should in fact be on the sides of his knees. And his knees are above the guy's back, where they should be on the sides of his body, lined up with the floating ribs.

I've tapped at least one purple belt who outweighed me with it, so I wouldn't consider it crappling. The top guy getting a forearm across your neck will make it difficult to finish, but it also gives you the opportunity to switch off into an arm triangle and/or take his back, since he's putting his arm on your throat while you effectively have double-underhooks.

This is not to defend lockflow, since I don't really read the site and I don't know if their techniques overall are any good.

**fireplug50** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 9:13pm

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean

Heavier moderation of technique. Maybe a Hall of Shame for spectacularly awful techniques (though that would probably be a bad idea, since it would discourage contribution). It would be nice to see techniques that are blatantly terrible thrown out immediately. Perhaps peer review by good grapplers before submitted techniques are even allowed on the site, assuming they don't already do this (I'm hoping it is not the case, as I don't see how techniques like the "Bulgerian Headlock" or the god awful can opener from the bottom of guard could possibly have made it past peer review). Sanctions for users that consistently submit worthless crap might help.

I would like to see encouragement by the staff urging the user base to be more realistic. A few administrative notices to the effect that they want this website to be known as a repository for solid technique, not gimmicky junk would be nice.

Basically, trim the fat and try hard to encourage lean, healthy growth.

I hope you understand that I am genuinely upset about the state of things on their website, and not just looking to be an asshole and make fun of the work they do. That's why this thread is in our dedicated and heavily moderated grappling forum, and not a more general subforum where grapplers and non-grapplers alike are free to take potshots at the website in question.

Well, in the Bulgarian Headlock for instance you will notice that the moderators (Combat Chaz) of Lockflow did in fact point out the very things you mentioned. I think the whole problem is that everyone at lockflow is pretty laid back and have a kind of "try it and see" attitude to technique. They stated that they were dubious in the extreme about the technique.

I do agree that there should be more panning of poor or marginal technique. I think I will start doing that myself.

There is no reason why people cannot join and start to rate the techniques, and post your comments on them. Why not start a thread in their forums? Thanks for being so civil about your concerns too.

-Fireplug

**combatchaz** · Posted On: 5/19/2006 6:03pm

OK, Guys here I am, one of the creators of Lockflow.com. Lockflow.com allows anybody to contribute techniques. Yes we get crap sometimes, but we also get good stuff -We don't discriminate- We've got joe schmoe in his basement to UFC Champions, if you dont like it then don't use it - and give it a bad rating. If you've got a better one - than submit it. Be proactive. Thanks for your time, and hopefully you wont get your guard passed by a backflip. :)

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 6/22/2006 10:25am

I just registered at Lockflow. I am going to be down rating the 5star gimmicks. I suggest you do the same. Veiw the grappling tech then sort by Rank.

Anything with 5-stars needs to be solid against at least an experienced Blue Belt.

**combatchaz** · Posted On: 6/23/2006 10:02am

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

I just registered at Lockflow. I am going to be down rating the 5star gimmicks. I suggest you do the same. Veiw the grappling tech then sort by Rank.

Anything with 5-stars needs to be solid against at least an experienced Blue Belt.

pro-active!

**Gezere** · Posted On: 6/23/2006 10:47am

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean

Heh. I've actually used this one several times on newbs. It fucks with their head because we say that your goal while in someones gaurd is to Pass it (for pure grappling) or Pound then pass (for MMA). Sometimes they think that if they have someone in their guard their safe and will be lazy. Then they get caught with something like this, which wouldn't work on an experienced person, and they get confused and try to do it back and which gets them swept or submitted.:confused3