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  1. Haru_the_larger is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 10:14am


     Style: Fang Shen Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it just me or is Havoc sounding a lot like Shadow Beast? I'm not meaning to suggest that he *IS* SB, only that he is displaying a similar pattern:

    1. FSD is amazing. Pontification follows.

    2. Gets asked some difficult questions. Doesn't really answer them.

    3. Gets offended and defensive. Asks why everyone is picking on him.

    4. Sees the light and decides to try another club.

    Now, if he flip flops back to FSD then I will start having questions.

    Havoc - if you are what you are and who you say you are, good for you. It does not surprise me at all that the FSD crowd expected you to start all over again. It supports Crazy Mount's point that they only care about people's wallets now, even if they started off with humble beginnings and noble intentions. Starting you at white = more cash flow for them through testing, membership fees, etc. Perhaps they gave you the "you will advance quickly, this is just a refresher" speech? What new club(s) will you be trying? n00b gave you a pretty good list of choices as far as styles go. Best of luck choosing a new school.
    Last edited by Haru_the_larger; 8/18/2006 10:17am at .
      #1041
  2. n00b is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 10:23am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Havoc: Just to be clear, if you honestly believe that FSD's training is the best for you, and will make you one happy bunny, then spend your money, and keep an eye on what you're being sold, as a lot of it is suspect.

    I *do*, however, recommend testing what you're learning, and testing it on people with similar time in the arts I've mentioned previously. Be an informed consumer, is all I'm saying.

    I believe one of the sifus said in the spring that there would be competition, to help prove the validity of the system. I'm still looking forward to hearing about how that goes. Of course, it's going to snow soon. I may have been taken for a ride...
      #1042
  3. HAVOC is offline
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    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 12:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I took FSD approx 20 years ago when it was WCD and had to leave because of personal reasons. The only other fighting styes I was exposed to were limited at best. So for 20 years I thought that I took a very good martial art. Now I return to FSD and shortly after these threads appear. So imagine that something that you have beleived in for 20 years was being attacked.

    Now with much research I agree with much of the critisisms listed. I myself have had certain misgivings about the club but I fooled myself long ago. I do not think that I have SEEN THE LIGHT. I have made an educated decision using my personal experiences and and the information provided on this and other sites.

    On another note. I have answered all questions asked of me.

    I have signed with another club.

    I lost money because I have pre paid a month in advance at FSD. I have the feeling that asking for a refund is futile.
      #1043
  4. n00b is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2006 12:22pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    S'true, you've comported yourself quite well, I agree.

    Now, on to the weekend!
      #1044
  5. Haru_the_larger is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2006 10:06pm


     Style: Fang Shen Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am so annoyed. Perhaps pissed off. Ah hell, I am not sure what I am at this moment. I've not been around here too long. I admit to being a neophyte. My friends rhyme off the names of Pride, K1, and UFC fighters like they are all best friends and I haven't a clue what or who they are talking about. I train for me. I fight for me. I doubt I will ever complete in anything like APEX or King of the Cage simply because it is not in me to do so. I will continue to train. I will continue to improve. I will continue to be a fan of MMA. I continue to respect my instructors and those in my gym who compete.

    Despite all that I still hold in my being the idea that at some point the FSD guys will figure it out. I am still hoping that they will do something that inspores respect from someone outside the FSD system. I think I do this because I am so embarassed that I allowed them to take my money, my time, and some of my self-respect. I allowed them to pressure me, bully me, and shame me. I suppose I figure that if they get some respect then I won't feel like I've been had so badly.

    I have read this thread as well as the other 1500+ FSD thread and the history thread. I am quite sure that somone will crucify me, but here it is. I had been PMing with Gerry Mansfield. I'd been respecting his wishes to keep the PMs private. Until now. He'd been reasonable. He'd been talking, not attacking. Then I asked him the money question. Why is it so expensive? He responded saying that I obviously had no clue about the cost of running a business (along with some other things). It took me some time to get back to him. This was the result:
    __________________________________________________ ____________

    My words:

    I apologize for taking so very long to answer this PM.

    I appreciate that you seem to wish to discuss and not attack. I will say, however, that you don't know me and don't know anything about my life experiences. I do, in fact, know what it takes to run a business. I understand about overhead and rent and phones and heat, etc etc.
    this arguement has been raised before and it doesn't fully hold water I am afraid. There are ways to cut costs. There are things that can be done to advertise without spending money. You don't have to have a cell phone + a land line for your business. Fact of the matter is that if other martial art schools can do all these same things with the overhead, uniforms, etc and offer their services at a lower rate, why can't you?

    But in reality, it isn't for me to tell you how to run your particular business. You speak about "men of honour" and yet Sijo himself does not appear to be one. I have heard stories from the mouths of sifus about things that Sijo has asked them to do. If that is not reliable information, I don't know what is.

    I have been left with an incredibly bad taste in my mouth with respect to FSD. I used to be a proud, banner waving, chest-thumping, spread-the-word, sijo's-word-is-undisputed member of FSD. Now I think back and realize all the times I was bullied, made a fool of, or pressured by instructors, Sijo, and Linda. I can't tell you the number of liability issues are involved with the school, and the huge number of pedagogical errors that are made there. It doesn't much matter though. Obviously Sijo has no interest in being credible. He just wants to make money.

    You ended your last PM to me saying "I hope you will approve someday" or something to that effect. I will direct you back again to my posts. There are not that many of them. I was, and to a certain extent still am, practically BEGGING for Sijo and the rest of the FSD organization to stand up and be accountable. You and Scott seem to have listened to a degree, but on the whole there have been no real changes.

    I still hope that FSD cleans up its act. I doubt it will happen. Sijo has made it blatantly obvious that he doesn't care what his students or anyone else thinks. I appreciate that you, at least, seem to have taken a different approach.


    Gerry's response:

    The objective of Business IS to make money.
    I think Sijos big mistake is in stating that same fact.

    Please forgive my short answers, I have lost interest in defending FSD against people who obviously have sour grapes against some or all of the owners.
    However, I do feel regret that some students feel this way, I would like to move on and give my students the best service for the money they pay. By Getting involved in Bullshido, the effort of defending FSD has stolen my concentration and effectiveness as an Instructor.
    Good luck in all your endeavors,
    Sifu Gerry
    __________________________________________________ _________

    Why am I so upset? I am not sure. It just seemed so wrong.

    I will say again, as I believe I have in the past, that I learned things at FSD. Somewhere in this thread someone brought up the idea of fighting stance, and whether the FSD stance had too many openings, and about motions after throwing a punch - rolling the shoulder on the follow through and what not. I apologize for not going back and finding the exact post. What I can say is that Sifu Scott did teach those things to me the right way, at least according to that post. I am all about being fair in this debate.

    BUT

    WTF. That was my immediate response to what Gerry said. I had been standing by my unspoken promise to keep the PMs private, but this just struck me as wrong. I figured I would just add it to the conversation. It seemed like he was standing up and being accountable for a while. Now I am just annoyed.
      #1045
  6. TKD Black Belt is offline
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    Keeeeee-Yeah!

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2006 10:51pm


     Style: Whoo-Hoo-Fu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Haru_the_larger
    Sifu Gerry
    Well at the very least Levac came clean with who he really was. How'd the trips to the BJJ clubs go Gerry? You learn anything?

    I suppose now that you've armed yourself with a few free classes here and there and made some new (although I suspect short lived) alliances with other clubs you can go back to teaching. Funny, I'm willing to bet dollars to dog **** that FSD will go right back to limiting what the students know for fear of being out performed.

    Do the boys miss me at the club? I've played around with sticking my head in and announcing at the top of my lungs:

    "Hi boys! Its me TKD Black Belt!"

    But then again any place that publishes scripts for their staff (hey Havoc does this sound familiar?):

    You did great, let's go back to the office to complete your evaluation.
    We want our students to train a minimum of2 times a week, is this possible (Yes)
    Here's the schedule, which days would you pick? Circle on paper days he chose (as if he's already a member)
    From what I saw in the evaluation, I would recommend you start with a 6 mths membership ..... .it's 627$, plus registration 149$ includes everything .. .if you join today you get the free uniform, manual, etc


    Sad, really sad. Did you know that if you place a frog in a beaker of water and slowly raise the temperature the frog will stay put even when the water temperature rises to a level that is lethal? I'd make the obligatory 'Frog' and 'French' joke but that's too damn easy.

    TKD
      #1046
  7. wagamichi is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/22/2006 11:09pm


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why won't FSD just die? We have beat it to death, we have mocked, cajoled, made fun of, threatend, and belitled this exotic canadian french speaking art. Why, Why! won't it go away?
    When You absolutely have to hide a body...try Alaska.
      #1047
  8. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 12:52am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Haru_the_larger:

    Do yourself a favor: cease refering to these individuals as "Sijo" and "siju" and the rest.

    They do not merit such titles.

    They are men and not honorable men.

    --J.D.
      #1048
  9. wagamichi is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 1:02am


     Style: wagamichi shorei kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    Haru_the_larger:

    Do yourself a favor: cease refering to these individuals as "Sijo" and "siju" and the rest.

    They do not merit such titles.

    They are men and not honorable men.

    --J.D.

    Yes... Seefood has a better sound anyway.
    When You absolutely have to hide a body...try Alaska.
      #1049
  10. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 1:07am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    :brushteet

    --J.D.
      #1050

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