West Wind Schools "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly"

**Bokfutopher** · Posted On: 12/24/2006 5:06pm

I believe that every system of Martial Arts is good in its own aspects. I do not believe that any one system is better than another. I do believe that the system is what you make of it. I do believe that one martial artist can be better than another, not because of the type of system they belong to, but rather their level of talent, amount of practise and effort they put into learning and becoming better, and if he has the killer instinct it takes to win. Some are just better fighters just like some are better runners or better singers. It does not matter what school you go to for singing lessons, they can only improve you to what your abilities will allow. My point is you cant turn everyone into a Bruce Lee or Jet Li no matter what system you study.

This is a story about West Wind Karate Schools. Bare with me through this and you might find it interesting. I am going to try and explain everything from how it used to be till now. I joined West Wind back in 1994, this is when it was still good. Back then Ron Lee owned and operated these schools, he was the master instructor. He had a man by the name of Allen Hubbard who was his chief instructor at the time. Below him was Scott Flint the assistant chief instructor and 4 senior head instructors. On top of this there was an head instructor, assistant head instructor, director, level 2, and level 1 instructors at each school. Ron Lee started by taking lessons from a man named Ron Cuvlier at East West Karate Schools. Ron Lee purchased the Berkeley school for Ron Cuvlier back in the late 60s early 70s. Ron Lee's last name is not actually Lee either it is Leskoschek, I think I am spelling that correctly, he is polish. He changed it because little kids could not pronounce his name and started calling him Mr. Lee. After buying the Berkeley East West School he renamed it West Wind and called his style Bok Fu, which means white tiger. He named it this because all of the teachers at the time were caucasion and the style he taught was agressive. He taught everyone that what they were learning was Kenpo. In fact he taught us that the style that he taught originated with the late Grand Master Edmund K. Parker, also known as the "Father of American Martial Arts". This is when they still had awsome instructors like Mr. Kelley, Mr. Loubauch, Mr. Zwior and Mr. Rad and so on. Back when I joined Mr. Lee had opened 7 different schools through out the Bay Area, in Berkeley, Alameda, Daily City, Richmond, Vallejo, Faifield, and Napa.

I had taken Tae Kwon Do as a child, 9years old, for a couple of years. But had not studied again faithfully, until I joined West Wind. All the kicks that they used were the same, pretty much. Just little variations here and there, not enough to make a difference, and not all the kicks that they used in TKD were used in this system, most but not all. They also used the same blocks, hand strikes, and stances as well. Everything came pretty quick to me, so I moved through the ranks pretty quickly. I liked it because it gave you an sequence of moves you could practice for a particular attack. Not that every attack happens the way you want it to, or that you can plan how an attack is going to be played out, but you can get used to putting moves together and you can change them to fit your situation. It is just like the Katas you learn in just about every style, you cant use them in a fight per say, but they are good for practicing your basics, increasing the strenghth and speed of your strikes and so on.

There belt order went form White, Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, 3rd degree, 2nd degree, 1st degree Brown, to Black Belt. Once I passed my purple belt test I was invited to attend Instructor Training. Which had three different phases. Instructor training 1a, Instructor training 2a also known as "Special squad", Instructor training 3a. I ended up passing all three levels, but did not end up teaching at that point. I had to many things going on in my life at that time. I ended up going through again after my blue belt test and passed all three levels and started teaching. I was not allowed to teach any material that I had not already passed a belt test for, as with all instructors who were not Black Belts. We wore Red Belts to signify that we were teachers, but every one knew we were not Black Belts. The head instructor had to be a black belt and he supervised and watched over what we were teaching. The head instructor would drop into a private lesson periodically to see how and what we were teaching.

Stay tuned and it really gets into what they turned into once Ron Lee lost his system. Very juicy stuff.

**Red Elvis** · Posted On: 12/24/2006 5:24pm

Originally Posted by Bokfutopher

I believe that every system of Martial Arts is good in its own aspects. I do not believe that any one system is better than another. I do believe that the system is what you make of it. I do believe that one martial artist can be better than another, not because of the type of system they belong to, but rather their level of talent, amount of practise and effort they put into learning and becoming better, and if he has the killer instinct it takes to win. Some are just better fighters just like some are better runners or better singers.

Say my wife and I have quadruplets who are all male and are identical in every way. At age 18 they all simultaneously enroll each in a different martial arts school for exaclty 12 months.

One does BJJ
One does TKD
One does Aikido
One does MMA

Are you saying that they will all be equals? That none of the above will produce better quality fighters over the other?

**Backdraft** · Posted On: 12/25/2006 8:12am

No, all martial arts are NOT equal. It is NOT only the person. There ARE styles that suck donkey dick. Search for Matt Thornton, and learn something.

**El-Wood** · Posted On: 12/25/2006 9:28am

you know, I had the pleasure of walking by West Wind on my way over to a friend's while in Berkeley recently and was tempted to step inside after the all the fun Bullshido has had at their expense...

then I saw the guy in (I KID YOU NOT) some funky silk gi thing with a DRESS SHIRT AND TIE ON UNDER IT - I almost died laughing - I think he was offended but I am not a small man so obviously he repressed the urge to say anything...

**sdave** · Posted On: 12/25/2006 9:47am

tl;dr...

krotty sux...

Every system is NOT "good in its own aspects" (wtf?)...

It's very unlikey that anyone here will care if you've spelled Lee's original name correctly, nor those of any of his obscure instructors...

krotty still sux...

Welcome to Bullshido and Merry Christmas!!!

**MacWombat** · Posted On: 12/25/2006 12:25pm

Every system is good in its own aspects.... Hmmm, I guess aikido is good if its aspect is sucking. Also stop using nonstandard text. It doesn't make you an individual, it makes you annoying.

**wingchundo** · Posted On: 12/25/2006 1:06pm

I believe that every system of Martial Arts is good in its own aspects.

No. See Yellow Bamboo.

I do not believe that any one system is better than another.

No. See Yellow Bamboo

I do believe that the system is what you make of it.

No. See Yellow Bamboo

I do believe that one martial artist can be better than another, not because of the type of system they belong to, but rather their level of talent, amount of practise and effort they put into learning and becoming better, and if he has the killer instinct it takes to win. Some are just better fighters just like some are better runners or better singers.

Thanks Capt. Obvious.

It does not matter what school you go to for singing lessons, they can only improve you to what your abilities will allow.

Wrong. If Tom Waitts or Bob Dylan is your singing teacher, you'll likely suck. No matter how hard you train. Quality instruction and quality instruction methods are too important. And a lot of martial arts schools have **** for both.

My point is you cant turn everyone into a Bruce Lee or Jet Li no matter what system you study.

Wrong. Both are/were actors and anyone can learn to use martial arts in movies just as well, if not better.

This is a story about West Wind Karate Schools. Bare with me through this and you might find it interesting.

Not doing so well up to this point, I don't have much hope.

I am going to try and explain everything from how it used to be till now.

Oh Christ.

I joined West Wind back in 1994, this is when it was still good.

I question your definition of "good."

Back then Ron Lee owned and operated these schools, he was the master instructor. He had a man by the name of Allen Hubbard who was his chief instructor at the time. Below him was Scott Flint the assistant chief instructor and 4 senior head instructors. On top of this there was an head instructor, assistant head instructor, director, level 2, and level 1 instructors at each school. Ron Lee started by taking lessons from a man named Ron Cuvlier at East West Karate Schools. Ron Lee purchased the Berkeley school for Ron Cuvlier back in the late 60s early 70s.

These names mean nothing.

Ron Lee's last name is not actually Lee either it is Leskoschek, I think I am spelling that correctly, he is polish.

Like shoe polish?

He changed it because little kids could not pronounce his name and started calling him Mr. Lee.

Did he teach only retarded children?

After buying the Berkeley East West School he renamed it West Wind and called his style Bok Fu, which means white tiger. He named it this because all of the teachers at the time were caucasion and the style he taught was agressive.

So if they were skinny Asians, would it have been Yellow Bamboo?

He taught everyone that what they were learning was Kenpo. In fact he taught us that the style that he taught originated with the late Grand Master Edmund K. Parker, also known as the "Father of American Martial Arts".

Thanks for the history lesson that no one needed.

This is when they still had awsome instructors like Mr. Kelley, Mr. Loubauch, Mr. Zwior and Mr. Rad and so on. Back when I joined Mr. Lee had opened 7 different schools through out the Bay Area, in Berkeley, Alameda, Daily City, Richmond, Vallejo, Faifield, and Napa.

Point?

I had taken Tae Kwon Do as a child, 9years old, for a couple of years. But had not studied again faithfully, until I joined West Wind. All the kicks that they used were the same, pretty much. Just little variations here and there, not enough to make a difference, and not all the kicks that they used in TKD were used in this system, most but not all. They also used the same blocks, hand strikes, and stances as well. Everything came pretty quick to me, so I moved through the ranks pretty quickly.

So was it TKD or Kenpo?

I liked it because it gave you an sequence of moves you could practice for a particular attack. Not that every attack happens the way you want it to, or that you can plan how an attack is going to be played out, but you can get used to putting moves together and you can change them to fit your situation. It is just like the Katas you learn in just about every style, you cant use them in a fight per say, but they are good for practicing your basics, increasing the strenghth and speed of your strikes and so on.

Katas suck. There is no application.

There belt order went form White, Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, 3rd degree, 2nd degree, 1st degree Brown, to Black Belt. Once I passed my purple belt test I was invited to attend Instructor Training. Which had three different phases. Instructor training 1a, Instructor training 2a also known as "Special squad", Instructor training 3a. I ended up passing all three levels, but did not end up teaching at that point. I had to many things going on in my life at that time. I ended up going through again after my blue belt test and passed all three levels and started teaching.

I can only imagine how much they charged you for all this.

I was not allowed to teach any material that I had not already passed a belt test for, as with all instructors who were not Black Belts. We wore Red Belts to signify that we were teachers, but every one knew we were not Black Belts. The head instructor had to be a black belt and he supervised and watched over what we were teaching. The head instructor would drop into a private lesson periodically to see how and what we were teaching.

This sounds reasonable.

Stay tuned and it really gets into what they turned into once Ron Lee lost his system. Very juicy stuff.

We already know what it turned into.

Merry Christmas, stfu.

Welcome to Bullshido.

**stvp** · Posted On: 12/28/2006 1:02pm

More please....I'm tuned in and will probably have a story of my own to tell about WW.....need some decompression time first....

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 12/28/2006 1:41pm

I'd love to hear the part about Ron Lee losing his system.

**jdinca** · Posted On: 12/28/2006 2:53pm

Sigh. A couple of clarifications. Ron Lee never got above Brown Belt before he left East - West. Any rank designation above that was given to him by himself. The man he learned from is named Richard Lee (Cuveliere). Ron Lee did not name his system Bok Fu, that was done in 1972 by Richard Lee, the man who developed the system. The "Do" in Bok Fu Do was added in '94 when GM Al Tracy presented Richard Lee with his 10th degree BB. The only other 10th degree in Tracy Kenpo prior to that was GM Tracy himself. As of today, the only other addition to that has been Ray Arquilla.

Bok Fu Do is based in EPAK and the Tracy Kenpo systems but has been expanded well beyond those. It does include all of the kicks of TKD but is influenced much more by cma, to the point that we are internationally recognized as a cma.

If you so desire, here's a link that gives the history of the system and a disclaimer from GM Lee in regards to other schools that teach his system.

http://216.25.101.46/BokFuDoHistory.aspx

It's sad when people strike out on their own with no effort whatsoever to stay in touoh with the foundations of their training, or concern about maintaining the traditions of the system they teach. That is true Bullshido.