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  1. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 5:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Superficiality in any form is not a good thing, wherever it occurs.
    It depends whether the use of superficial elements is confused with the real thing. I don't think that eating sushi makes me Japanese any more than carefully-coiffured Japanese 'punk' bands think their leather jackets equate to the spirit of 77.
  2. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 5:49am

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    It depends whether the use of superficial elements is confused with the real thing. I don't think that eating sushi makes me Japanese any more than carefully-coiffured Japanese 'punk' bands think their leather jackets equate to the spirit of 77.
    Spot on. I agree. Also, the capacity to recognise something as shallow is not a mark of the superficial (they think its T3h R3al). Again, see much of the New Age market.
    Last edited by DAYoung; 5/04/2006 5:52am at .
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  3. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 6:03am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    ill used by? Are you sure you don't mean ill used to?
    What things are ill used by their own culture?

    As for food, if you can like all kinds of food, why can't you like all kinds of cultural artifacts? My sesame chicken could be your filet mignon -- the value of something in its original culture can be very different to its value transported to another culture.

    Ill used by = poorly treated by

    Sinophiles (or people obsessed with any other culture) generally fall into two groups:

    The Clavel/hayes "I saw something in the culture mine lacked" variety and the pimply-faced otaku sort.

    Both seem to have a component of being (or at least feeling) poorly treated by their birth culture, and so they are driven to externalize virtue in order to suppose that it is their culture's fault for not recognizing their value, rather then their own fault for having so little.

    There is a rare third type who as actually lived a large portion of their life in the 'target' culture, but this person is more like a minority within it rather then an external admirer, IMO.

    Also, I agree that it's really not that big of deal. Any asian that gripes about otaku seems to me to be blind to a lot of asians running around playing baseball, OWNING fucking poker tables like god's personal curse on the gambling industry, and owning things like nazi-themed nightclubs...not to mention people putting shrimp on pizza, FFS.

    I eat japanese and chinese food because I'm an american. I eat a ton of **** everyday and if some of it isn't from other cultures, I get bored and have to watch cooking shows.

    But then, I'm not an obsessive asian wannabe...so I don't understand it.
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 5/04/2006 6:09am at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  4. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 6:06am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Both seem to have a component of being (or at least feeling) poorly treated by their birth culture, and so they are driven to externalize virtue in order to suppose that it is their culture's fault for not recognizing their value, rather then their own fault for having so little.
    Huzzah. Nicely said.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  5. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 6:11am

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Ill used by = poorly treated by

    Sinophiles (or people obsessed with any other culture) generally fall into two groups:

    The Clavel/hayes "I saw something in the culture mine lacked" variety and the pimply-faced otaku sort.

    Both seem to have a component of being (or at least feeling) poorly treated by their birth culture, and so they are driven to externalize virtue in order to suppose that it is their culture's fault for not recognizing their value, rather then their own fault for having so little.

    There is a rare third type who as actually lived a large portion of their life in the 'target' culture, but this person is more like a minority within it rather then an external admirer, IMO.
    I'd dispute the notion that we're duty bound to the culture we're born into. I know many people who've succesfully redefined themselves for various reasons. I don't think the only plausible reason is a lack of personal value.

    What's wrong with Hayes et al. isn't that they chose to participate in a culture primarily composed of the differently coloured, it's that they push a half arsed and superficial version as if it were the real thing.
  6. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 6:46am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I didn't say we were "duty bound" by our birth culture.

    I said most people developing a fascination with other cultures do so because they'er uphappy in their own.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  7. Erebus is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 7:08am


     Style: MT, Sanshou/Sanda

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What is up with the Lucy Liu's dressed in geisha-esque silk kimonos and wielding samurai swords screaming about hapa pride on table-tops while, a movie later, using her tiny feet to massage the swollen back of a guai lo?
    Last time I checked, Lucy Liu was Asian. Ten bucks says that the author of the blog is an ABC who suddenly came in contact with her heritage.
  8. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 7:09am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have a few points,

    One, its not an act of terrorism if the country knows you are at war with them. A horrible act yes, but not terrorism, just plain old killing on a massive scale. Otherwise you could say flying planes into battleships and attacking pearl harbor were terrorist acts. I dont really give a **** about how you feel or how your history was. I'm a american. I only really care about history that effected and will effect the place I live in.

    Two, just because I train in a few asian martial arts does not mean i'm stealing their culture. Hell I hate most of their culture. Japans constant pedapheila, china's communism, strict social codes of what is right and wrong. Just read that blog from that teacher in japan. Its all sorts of fucked up. If thats enlighted, I dont want it.

    There, I agree there are larpers who use other cultures to escape. So what? Does it hurt anybody that some guy is pretending to be a ninja in his college dorm? Nope. You want to target someone, target the idiots who are trying to get rich of the stuff.

    And finally four, I like green tea. I like asian food. That does not make me some culture stealing whore. It just means I like to eat good food. I also like mexician food, does that make me a mexican larper?

    P.S. Why is she stealing MY CULTURE and writing that in english?
  9. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 7:15am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    I didn't say we were "duty bound" by our birth culture.

    I said most people developing a fascination with other cultures do so because they'er uphappy in their own.
    Or because it's, like, interesting. Or because they make a rational choice after examining their options. I'm missing where being poorly treated makes it 'their own fault for having so little value'.
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I have a few points....
    Testify!
    Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 5/04/2006 7:19am at .
  10. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 7:17am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain
    ROFL. I'm sure Bin Laden just snuck up out of the blue.



    Sounds like someone is unclear on the concept. Military targets are fair game. Civilian targets less so. Battleships and Pearl Harbor were military targets. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian targets. The purpose in destroying them was to scare the **** out of the Japanese.
    Bin Laden is not a country. Had afghanistan attacked us, that would be differnt. Obviously you have no idea what war is. War is killing EVERYONE who is or could be against you. Suger coating war with this military only stuff is like saying you dont need to test your skills in sparing. Its a lie. Look at Iraq. You target what you need to target to win. If you didn't want your people to die, you shouldn't of started a fight.

    I just thought of something I would like to add. A ecconomic target is a valid military target. Take out the twin towers, you **** up the economy and hurt our military. If I was at war I would target factorys, steel mills, gasoline storage facilities, food distrobution etc. Most of those are in major citys. If your country can't feed their people, they are going to have problems fighting you.
    Last edited by FictionPimp; 5/04/2006 7:29am at .
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