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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A "pure" kung fu or karate fight of yore would look about like a streetfight today would look, I imagine. Or if it was between two experienced fightersit might look more like Vale Tudo (remember they did have some grappling back then; shuai chiao, jujutsu, etc.). But it would not look like a kung fu movie where they assume crane and mantis stances and face off doing crazy "dung beetle digs eats sewer water" or "white crane poops on car windshield" techniques. Not to mention REVERSE-PUNCH KIAIIIII!!

  2. #12
    The gift that keeps on giving supporting member
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    Yeah, I agree. No argument there. Your full contact competition styles turn out your better quality fighters. They train hard and do lots of sparring. No secret really.

    But I don't agree with Shotokan Karate being useless. No way. It all depends how its trained. I've seen damn good Shotokan fighters who do well in some of the Kyokushin tournaments I've been too. A good Shotokan school will train the right way. Yes, they will do kata and basics. But they also realise that hard contact sparring, pad work and fitness work is essential.
    Exactly. I actually fought in a full contact Kyokushin tourney this past weekend. I got beat up pretty good, didn't even last the round. I had never fought full contact before (let alone in any tournament, and without any pads what so ever) and learned a great deal.

    Sure, I trained hard to prepare for the fight but the mental aspect of actually having someone trying to knock your head off (literally), the crowd watching, trying to avoid tunnel vision, etc. etc. proves the valuable training that full contact fighting has.

    Will I give up Matsumura Kenpo for Kyokushin, or MMA? No. I know what I need to work on to get me better at what I do after that fight.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    A "pure" kung fu or karate fight of yore would look about like a streetfight today would look, I imagine. Or if it was between two experienced fightersit might look more like Vale Tudo (remember they did have some grappling back then; shuai chiao, jujutsu, etc.). But it would not look like a kung fu movie where they assume crane and mantis stances and face off doing crazy "dung beetle digs eats sewer water" or "white crane poops on car windshield" techniques. Not to mention REVERSE-PUNCH KIAIIIII!!
    you speak the truth.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    A "pure" kung fu or karate fight of yore would look about like a streetfight today would look, I imagine. Or if it was between two experienced fightersit might look more like Vale Tudo (remember they did have some grappling back then; shuai chiao, jujutsu, etc.). But it would not look like a kung fu movie where they assume crane and mantis stances and face off doing crazy "dung beetle digs eats sewer water" or "white crane poops on car windshield" techniques. Not to mention REVERSE-PUNCH KIAIIIII!!
    No....shhhhh....illusions don't shatter illusions.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    No....shhhhh....illusions don't shatter illusions.
    But it's my job...

  6. #16

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    /Yes, you would have seen "pure karate" street fights in Okinawa in the past (and kung fu in China). It's just that everyone of the fighters would fight their own way (no set style, individual approach), make sense? Also, this is maybe how they developed a following and the "styles" were created in the first place./


    i dont know about that.

    most oriental styles are pretty well developed and somewhat comprehensive. they are not the result of one person's 'style'. they are an ongoing process.

    even if the techniques are universal, there is still far too much codification for it to be the result of a bunch of grab ass on the street.

    and it is quite interesting how you blithely dismiss the efforts of people in a time and age when death might very well be the result of a fight, which were most often with weapons.

    it is true however that most karate and kungfu type movements are not designed for self defense, they are for inter-orgizational sparring and competition with other likeminded individuals.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndoChinese
    /Yes, you would have seen "pure karate" street fights in Okinawa in the past (and kung fu in China). It's just that everyone of the fighters would fight their own way (no set style, individual approach), make sense? Also, this is maybe how they developed a following and the "styles" were created in the first place./


    i dont know about that.

    most oriental styles are pretty well developed and somewhat comprehensive. they are not the result of one person's 'style'. they are an ongoing process.

    even if the techniques are universal, there is still far too much codification for it to be the result of a bunch of grab ass on the street.

    and it is quite interesting how you blithely dismiss the efforts of people in a time and age when death might very well be the result of a fight, which were most often with weapons.
    Interesting. Perhaps you should see my thread on a similar idea (you might like to look for my weapons comment):

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33627

  8. #18
    The gift that keeps on giving supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndoChinese
    most oriental styles are pretty well developed and somewhat comprehensive. they are not the result of one person's 'style'. they are an ongoing process.
    So you're saying Bushi Matsumura, Hohan Soken and Gichin Funakoshi didn't develope their own 'styles' of karate?

    No doubt, it should be an ongoing process.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfe
    Exactly. I actually fought in a full contact Kyokushin tourney this past weekend. I got beat up pretty good, didn't even last the round. I had never fought full contact before (let alone in any tournament, and without any pads what so ever) and learned a great deal.
    Well done. I take it this the open in seattle. Awesome.
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  10. #20

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    I notice when the topic of a style being useful, it is never addressed in what type of opponent you would be up against. There is a big difference in fighting some untrained opponent then there would be a MMA guy. I think on this board, the general viewpoint when addressing a style being uselful or useless in self defense, seems to be "if you were up against an MMA" style fighter, in which case I think would be a much lower precentage then encountering an untrained fighter.

    For the most part you don't have a bunch of UFC type people running around picking fights. Most fights I ever saw, were obviously untrained and sloppy fighters.

    It makes sense to imagine the worst possible scenario.
    If you assume that when you get into a street fight you will be against a MMA fighter with good stamina, skill, agressivness etc and you train to beat him, you will have an easier time if its someone without fighting experience, its pretty logical.

    Of course that by possible scenario I'm including actual possible things to overcome, if you get weapons in the equation then its a diferent story.
    Last edited by Lucky Seven; 5/03/2006 6:15am at .

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