233426 Bullies, 3426 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 40
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Shogun1204 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    13

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 9:43pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What I learned here...

    I spent a lot of time reading past and present threads here. A lot of interesting threads, I am glad I found this site.

    I wanted to share some thoughts of my own and get a little more insight on a few things.

    I am just getting back into martial arts myself, after several years away, so I have been looking into different schools/styles around my area. From what I gather from this community the following seems to be the common belief:

    Grappling (BJJ, Wrestling, etc.) is the best style you could train in. To make it better, add a striking art like Boxing or MT.

    Styles like Karate (i.e. Shotokan, etc.) , TKD, Aikido, Kung Fu (i.e. WC, Shaolin 5 animals, etc. ) are not all that great (in some cases useless) for sport and street fighting.

    This raises an interesting question. Were these styles ever effective? At any one point in history, did people ever really have pure Kung Fu street fights? Did people really use all Aikido in a fight? Would we have seen pure Karate street fights in Okinawa? So being grappling is the "best art", people must not have grappled in the past? Thus these systems worked at one time due to the lack of grappling? If they didn't, why have they survived all of this time? I just don't seem to understand this.

    I notice when the topic of a style being useful, it is never addressed in what type of opponent you would be up against. There is a big difference in fighting some untrained opponent then there would be a MMA guy. I think on this board, the general viewpoint when addressing a style being uselful or useless in self defense, seems to be "if you were up against an MMA" style fighter, in which case I think would be a much lower precentage then encountering an untrained fighter.

    For the most part you don't have a bunch of UFC type people running around picking fights. Most fights I ever saw, were obviously untrained and sloppy fighters. Whether they were on the ground or not, they lacked any real direction or skill. I would think someone in decent condition and who had some formal MA training should do decent against them even if they were trained in a style deemed "not so good or useless" here on the board. However, I would agree a TKD stylest (for example) would get eaten alive by an MMA fighter. But is this really the norm? I don't feel it is.

    I am interested in your thoughts on this subject.
  2. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    6,928

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 9:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  3. supercrap is offline
    supercrap's Avatar

    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Least Cool Guy in all of Japan
    Posts
    2,296

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 9:54pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are beginning to see the light, shogun. Dont fight it.
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
    Scramble Stuff
  4. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,069

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 10:05pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aikido and Shotokan never did work. Both of these arts are very recent creations.

    They were designed not to be effective for fighting. Ueshiba created Aikido as a vehicle for internal development through physical effort.

    Funakoshi created Japanese Shotokan with similiar goals - definitely being the ultimate fighter was not one of them. Fitness and personal development were his goals.

    Contrast this with Judo, which was created for fighting.

    Now on to Kung-fu. Well your going to have to do some research here. After the communists took over China they outlawed kung-fu.

    So anything you see as kung-fu here in the west had to come from somewhere else or from people fleeing the communist revolution. Now does that mean what we ended up with is or was effective? Then your going to have to look at the strange ancestor worship that goes on in the Chinese culture and the lack of desire to question the master - and you end up with crap being passed down over the generations.

    Contrast this with boxing, where the people who train in it, actually fight.

    I could go on, but my best advice is to go to your local library and get Donn F. Draeger's books. Start reading and you'll start to figure it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shogun
    For the most part you don't have a bunch of UFC type people running around picking fights. Most fights I ever saw, were obviously untrained and sloppy fighters. Whether they were on the ground or not, they lacked any real direction or skill. I would think someone in decent condition and who had some formal MA training should do decent against them even if they were trained in a style deemed "not so good or useless" here on the board. However, I would agree a TKD stylest (for example) would get eaten alive by an MMA fighter. But is this really the norm? I don't feel it is.
    Then you are only seeing highschool fights. They are sloppy and untrained. Just wait if you hang around the bad part of town you'll eventually see ugly fights where people actually can fight and get hurt.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  5. Shaolinz is offline
    Shaolinz's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    965

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 10:11pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is more than one place to learn how to fight. Gym, dojo or alley. You still develop skills as long as your fighting (getting destroyed by someone isn't a fight). I'd take a common back alley brawlers of a kung fu guy most of the time. Why? They actually get in fights. If you have a lone person attack you on the street he is either armed, a retard or knows he will take you. I've been to enough back yard parties with people beating the crap out of each other and laughing afterwards because its just their idea of fun. Is it training in a martial art? Not really but its definitly fighting experience. You may be suprised what a "untrained street thug" who is hungry and wants your **** can accomplish... I'm sure a tiger claw would stop him tho. (This sounds stereotypical but I still know people that fit into some stereotypes)
    Last edited by Shaolinz; 5/02/2006 10:13pm at .
  6. Steve is offline
    Steve's Avatar

    The gift that keeps on giving

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    4,205

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 10:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: On hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This raises an interesting question. Were these styles ever effective? At any one point in history, did people ever really have pure Kung Fu street fights? Did people really use all Aikido in a fight? Would we have seen pure Karate street fights in Okinawa? So being grappling is the "best art", people must not have grappled in the past? Thus these systems worked at one time due to the lack of grappling? If they didn't, why have they survived all of this time? I just don't seem to understand this.
    Why did they survive? I would guess it ends up just being an homage to the creator of which ever system you can think of. The founder died and his/her students just kept copying what they did not ever thinking that they could improve on it (in most cases).

    Yes, you would have seen "pure karate" street fights in Okinawa in the past (and kung fu in China). It's just that everyone of the fighters would fight their own way (no set style, individual approach), make sense? Also, this is maybe how they developed a following and the "styles" were created in the first place.

    Also, don't forget about Okinawan Kenpo, a grappling art that originated there (predating karate, I believe).
    Last edited by Steve; 5/02/2006 10:32pm at .
  7. kxfour is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    20

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 11:03pm


     Style: RecoveringChun'r(BJJ+MMA)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to agree with the OP in that the general thought on the forum is that non-grappling arts (aside from boxing) are useless and all kung fu is fake.

    And on top of that i'm starting to beleive this!
  8. Steve is offline
    Steve's Avatar

    The gift that keeps on giving

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    4,205

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 11:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: On hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kxfour
    I have to agree with the OP in that the general thought on the forum is that non-grappling arts (aside from boxing) are useless and all kung fu is fake.
    I'd have to agree. But to each his/her own.

    Stiking arts that don't adapt their game to boxing or MMA while mixing it up will indeed have a lot of trouble on the street.
  9. RaiNnyX4 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sapporo
    Posts
    662

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 11:19pm


     Style: Aikido/Judo/BJJ/Naginata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Grappling (BJJ, Wrestling, etc.) is the best style you could train in. To make it better, add a striking art like Boxing or MT.

    Styles like Karate (i.e. Shotokan, etc.) , TKD, Aikido, Kung Fu (i.e. WC, Shaolin 5 animals, etc. ) are not all that great (in some cases useless) for sport and street fighting.
    For the most part, the people on this board advocate these things because "live" training is the most effective form of learning how to fight. A lot of the latter styles spend most of their time on compliant practice or place too much emphasis on kata and never make the transition to "live" training.

    Are these styles all useless? No. Like you said, they came from somewhere and sometime where they were presumably used. At some point though, they became diluted for whatever reason.

    Are there badasses in these arts who can make them work? Yes. But it's almost a guarantee that the difference between the people who can make it work and the ones that can't is the "live" versus the "dead" training. And these arts will get varying degrees of respect for this very reason.

    Almost everyone here has stories they can tell defending their chosen art. For example, I know several NYPD cops that use their Aikido training extensively in the field. But these people are people who aren't afraid of conflict and trained hard. But I'll also tell you that the majority of Aikidoka gain almost no fighting skills even after years of training. This again, goes back to the fact that these people don't train in a "live" fashion.

    The reason the arts of BJJ, Judo, SAMBO, Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, etc. get lots of respect here is because the "live" part of training is built directly into the art. You can't honestly train in these arts without ever experiencing "live" training.
  10. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,334

    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 11:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I agree. No argument there. Your full contact competition styles turn out your better quality fighters. They train hard and do lots of sparring. No secret really.

    But I don't agree with Shotokan Karate being useless. No way. It all depends how its trained. I've seen damn good Shotokan fighters who do well in some of the Kyokushin tournaments I've been too. A good Shotokan school will train the right way. Yes, they will do kata and basics. But they also realise that hard contact sparring, pad work and fitness work is essential.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.