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  1. #1
    Still digging on James Brown

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    Using judo without a gi

    Previously.. in another thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    sumi gaeshi.

    First you throw knees, and victim leans over to counter/escape...except that last one isn't a kneee, it 's SUMI GAESHI. Roll to mount, pummel, go **** victim's girlfriend.

    Rinse and repeat.
    So that thread ended up (or rather started) in guantanamo.
    However, I'm wondering what kind of gripping you use for executing sumi gaeshi without a gi. I've kind of picked sumi gaeshi as a throw I want to develop really well with many different entries and variations to go along with the BJJ friendly stuff like ankle picking and pick up throws,

  2. #2

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    Well, I've got it to work from front head and arm, head and arm tie, over + under, and the guillotine. As long as you have a tight dominant clinch it seems pretty high percentage (for me at least). I always make sure that I go in kind of a ten or eleven o'clock direction rather than straight back. Also, it is absolutely imperative that you block one of their hips. I kind of do it with my knee turned out, shin against hip, foot hooking inner thigh. You have to be really careful with this because no-gi players are always ready to drive you down into mount; if you don't block a hip that is exactly what will happen. Yeah, and you need to make sure that you kind sit on your heels rather than roll backwards.
    You obviously also need to concentrate on elevating the opposite side to the one that you are pulling down on - it's best to pull down on the overhook side to stop them being able to post.

    Just what has worked for me. Not the law or anything.
    Last edited by MMA_Phil; 5/02/2006 5:44pm at .

  3. #3
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar
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    If you can get it, a kimura grip is ideal. Your foot should lift his opposite thigh instead of the same-side thigh and you reach over his back to get the grip on the arm. Another variant I know from self-defence is if they have you guillotined or in a head-and-arm clinch you can walk back, reach down to block the knee with both hands and then roll them over and turn to side control, but that does not really involve an inside lift with the legs.

    Aside from that, I only ever hit that throw by gripping over the back and getting the belt, then rolling straight into mount. I'm rather at a loss for no-gi.
    Last edited by Aesopian; 5/02/2006 9:12pm at .

  4. #4
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
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    Karo has a set of videos covering no-gi judo techniques suitable for MMA, btw.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  5. #5

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    Second what Shuma-Gorath just said: the kimura throwback is cool.
    Although, and I just checked how Karo did it, I'd say you need to elevate the same side hip as the arm you are kimuraing (right arm = lift right hip. It makes sense because you are already elevating that side with the kimura and so it's easier to lift.

  6. #6
    Samfoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Karo has a set of videos covering no-gi judo techniques suitable for MMA, btw.
    If I remember he covers Osoto, Sasae, and Uchimata. The videos are actually pretty good. I wish I still had them laying around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.

  7. #7
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMA_Phil
    Second what Shuma-Gorath just said: the kimura throwback is cool.
    Although, and I just checked how Karo did it, I'd say you need to elevate the same side hip as the arm you are kimuraing (right arm = lift right hip. It makes sense because you are already elevating that side with the kimura and so it's easier to lift.
    Yeah, that was ambiguous. I meant you lift on the opposite side of the lifting foot, same side as the kimura.

  8. #8
    Cassius's Avatar
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    A summary of what's in Parisyan's Judo for MMA set:

    * Volume 1. Osoto-Gari: This DVD details all of the steps needed to hit this takedown in a Submission Grappling or No Holds Barred fight. Learn to “shock” your opponent with your throw and gain the submission on the ground. Karo finishes his throws with multiple submissions like armbars, chokes and more! 42 minutes.

    * Volume 2. Ouchi-Gari: This is the most comprehensive look at this takedown from a Mixed Martial Arts view point. Learn how to create the setup without getting hit and how to hit this effective throw leaving your opponent dazed and ready to be submitted. An awesome DVD! 40 minutes.

    * Volume 3. Drop Seoi-Nagi: This is one of Karo’s favorite throws and one that he has used with great success in MMA! Every detail is shown with step by step instruction on this awesome throw and all of the possible variations. Another great DVD by World Martial Arts.43 minutes.

    * Volume 4. Uchi-Mata: This throw is one of the most famous and powerful throws in traditional Judo. In this DVD, Karo teaches how to use this amazing throw for MMA! Every detail and variation you can think of is covered on this video with the strategies that makes this technique effective when dealing with a striking opponent. You will love this DVD!37 minutes.

    * Volume 5. Kimura: The most famous throw and submission in grappling comes to No Holds Barred fighting in this incredible DVD! This is one of Karo’s most effective techniques and one that he is using on a regular basis in all of his MMA fights. Learn the Kimura from standing and on the ground with counters and offenses never seen on video until now! 43 minutes.

    * Volume 6. Submissions: This volume displays the devastating submissions of Judo that are effective in NO Holds Barred fighting. Karo Parisyan’s submissions are tested and proven in shows like the UFC and have led him to submit many of his opponents in his matches. Learn chokes, armbars and leglocks that are different then the typical Jiu-Jitsu approach to submissions on the ground.41 minutes.
    It's on my list of things to get.
    Last edited by Cassius; 5/02/2006 6:45pm at .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

  9. #9

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    excuse my noobness, but what's the kimura throw?

  10. #10
    Scrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMA_Phil
    Well, I've got it to work from front head and arm, head and arm tie, over + under, and the guillotine. As long as you have a tight dominant clinch it seems pretty high percentage (for me at least). I always make sure that I go in kind of a ten or eleven o'clock direction rather than straight back. Also, it is absolutely imperative that you block one of their hips. I kind of do it with my knee turned out, shin against hip, foot hooking inner thigh. You have to be really careful with this because no-gi players are always ready to drive you down into mount; if you don't block a hip that is exactly what will happen. Yeah, and you need to make sure that you kind sit on your heels rather than roll backwards.
    You obviously also need to concentrate on elevating the opposite side to the one that you are pulling down on - it's best to pull down on the overhook side to stop them being able to post.

    Just what has worked for me. Not the law or anything.


    C0rr3ct
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

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