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  1. tellner is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2006 5:48pm


     Style: Silat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some years back my wife and I did an experimental self defense pilot program for people in wheelchairs. Like others here have said, it really depends on your condition and limitations. Amputees are different than people with spinal breaks are different than ones with cerebral palsy.

    That said, you will probably have an upper body like a gorilla after a few months. Since you have the use of your legs for the most part you can grapple. I'd also suggest that you look into grabbing, ripping and tearing. With your hands you'll be able to do some pretty nasty things to people if you aren't worried about playing fair with someone who'd attack a guy in a wheelchair :icon_wink You won't be able to strike exactly the same way as if you had your feet, but you still have hands, elbows and forearms. We had a couple students in that program who could hit awfully hard, especially if they could lock the chair's wheels or grab and hit.

    The thoughts on weapons are good. Remember, if you can't walk and need a walker or a chair to get around the "disparity of force" is pretty darned obvious. You don't have to be nearly as restrained as a more able-bodied person would be. He has serious advantages. You have serious limitations. If he attacks you you are at much greater risk than most people would be, so you don't have to pull any punches, and the standard for using deadly force just went way down compared to the rest of us.
  2. kruuth is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2006 7:21pm

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     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah. This does change things, since you still have rudimentary control and you have your thigh muscles. This is good. I'm sure someone else has said it better, but your best bet is probably something with ground fighting, where you are mainly using stuff above the knee anyway. I would wager that you suddenly standing up and attacking someone would probably shock the hell out of someone.

    I'm a little remiss about foot drop. Is there any form of therapy that could improve your situation?

    I ask because I have trouble with my left arm due to acute myelitis, and after about 3 years of therapy and medication I've got most of my function back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobfather59
    I have foot drop, which means everything below my ankles are jello. I have use of my legs and can stand and can walk with the aid of a walker. My balance is gone. My thighs are strong and getting stronger. My arms are also getting stronger. I am a big guy, 6'4" tall, 325 lbs., a far cry from my max weight of over 600 lbs.

    I feel as though weapons are practical for my position, and not a cop out. I still have a powerful punch and can use my waist and shoulders for power. My hands are also strong and can grasp an opponents throat or wrist or ear . . . you get the idea. I am hoping to form a style for self defense from a wheelchair, I believe I have seen it done before, but so many years ago I can't recall who was doing it.
  3. tellner is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2006 11:31pm


     Style: Silat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd recommend against abandoning your chair too soon. It's your mobility and your posture. You may fall or be dragged out. You may make a tactical decision to bail out. But the chair gives you certain advantages that it might not be wise to give up too quickly.
  4. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 12:14am

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     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What advantages does the chair give you? At least on the ground he becomes an equal. Thats the whole point of fighting and using ranges of combat. If you cant arent equal or better in striking then clinch. If you arent equal or better in the clinch then takedown. If your not equal or better on the ground then go to standup. You go where ever you are better then your opponnent. The ground is the only place a man who cant stand would be at least equal. Thats why a grappling background is essential.

    As for striking in the chair, yea elbows and such would work but only from a clinch. Free motion range is stupid because the wheel chair gives you no mobility. Once again the ground would be the nest place to strike. Mount and pummel the fucker.
  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 1:50am

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I listed some of the advantages of remaining in the chair earlier; lower center of gravity, the chair itself shields you and limits the attacker's options, and you can use parts of the chair as weapons.

    I agree that any realistic wheelchair self defense system should include serious groundfighting and grappling as an option, but it's no panacea. My student used to haul himself out of the chair and go to the ground in real fights; he had no training but natural aggression and lots of upper-body strength worked for him, until one night when he thought he'd won the fight and was beaten up while trying to climb back into the chair.
  6. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 2:06am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First question why did he always get into fights, especially since he was in a wheel chair? I mean most people dont pick fights with guys in wheel chairs. secondly yes I agree with you about the advantages a chair has but all the disadvantages make nagate it. Lower gravity, ok but you get that by crouching and you can also move around unlike in the chair. I cant see it shielding you much. You cant move so dodging punches doesnt work. Even with the chair protecting your sides ur a sitting duck. Thats why I say get out of the chair. You can move pretty easily on the ground if you learn.

    I refer again to the stages of combat theory to decide what will work best. Where would you fight best or equal to others? Staniding in free motion, standing in a clinch or on the ground?
  7. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 3:12am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Frankly, he got into a lot of fights because that was part of his lifestyle both before and after the car crash that left him paraplegic. I did what I could to get him to see that it was ultimately a losing proposition but he needed something in the short term.

    I don't think we're actually disagreeing here; I'm just saying that a wheelchair fighting system needs to address all the tactical options. The optimal tactic we found, other than avoiding the fight, was to shield or break the first assault, control the attacker (usually by twisting his head and neck) and pulling him down onto the chair before getting nasty with attacks to the nose, eyes and throat (including a range of chokes).

    I agree that you should be able to take or follow the fight to the ground if that's the best way to finish it, but it's a circumstantial thing.
  8. RobG is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 4:16am


     Style: casual

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Please send info on your location - and although I am sure from a quick read of the previous posters - you have a lead into how to get some concrete skills.
    PM me about location...maybe we can hook up for a few hours and I can provide some service and past insight to you.
    I have had some students with special restrictions in the past..and offer my background totally free of any renumeration or compensation.

    BTW - you really should put up a way for the group to PM you...it would be easier to get the responses your looking for, I think....just a suggestion.
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    5/04/2006 10:54am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobfather59
    I didn't know New Yorkers had such a good sense of humor. Very funny.
    :icon_blac

    What do you mean I'm funny?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  10. kruuth is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2006 9:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tellner
    I'd recommend against abandoning your chair too soon. It's your mobility and your posture. You may fall or be dragged out. You may make a tactical decision to bail out. But the chair gives you certain advantages that it might not be wise to give up too quickly.
    By the poster's own confession he has full use of his legs, save his ankles. He's a big guy and I would thank that taking it to ground would be to his advantage.
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