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  1. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Baltimore, MD
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    18,486

    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:51am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Prove it.
    I don't have to.

    It's a concept created by your mind to describe reality, an attempt to classify things that ultimately fails. I've seen several different definitions of TMA, and they all end up having so many exceptions to them that they are functionally useless. Hence, it is a false dichotomy.

    Prove to me that TMA exists.

    You can't. It is not a thing in and of itself.

    There is functional, and non-functional. Alive training, and dead training.

    You're upset merely because I choose to reject the way you see reality, and say your vision is flawed. Such a small mind...I wish you could see the bigger picture TBK.
    Last edited by Jiggle Butt; 5/30/2006 11:53am at .
  2. Thaiboxerken is offline
    Thaiboxerken's Avatar

    Genius

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    Oct 2004
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    Portland, Oregon
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    6,349

    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I didn't create the concept of TMA. The burden is upon you to prove that they don't exist.
  3. Freakshow is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2006
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    281

    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:20pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    I don't have to.

    It's a concept created by your mind to describe reality, an attempt to classify things that ultimately fails. I've seen several different definitions of TMA, and they all end up having so many exceptions to them that they are functionally useless. Hence, it is a false dichotomy.

    Prove to me that TMA exists.

    You can't. It is not a thing in and of itself.

    There is functional, and non-functional. Alive training, and dead training.

    You're upset merely because I choose to reject the way you see reality, and say your vision is flawed. Such a small mind...I wish you could see the bigger picture TBK.
    I think your argument only holds if one insists that arts must be either 100% traditional, or 100% non-traditional. That is where a false dichotomy comes in.

    But one can instead look at an approximation of how much of an art is done for tradition purposes, and how much of an art is done because they have current evidence of consistent effectiveness. That avoids the issue of having to scrap the label simply because you can find some exceptions. Just about all rules have at least some exceptions.

    You don't think Aikido can be called a traditional art? If not, please explain why not.
  4. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    there are only functional arts and non-functional arts.
  5. Freakshow is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:30pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    there are only functional arts and non-functional arts.
    Why do non-functional arts survive?
  6. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

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    Oct 2003
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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    Why do non-functional arts survive?
    because people are stupid
  7. Freakshow is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:33pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    because people are stupid
    But the techniques and practices that are non-functional, that stupid people keep studying...why do those techniques and practices keep getting passed from instructor to student? They aren't being passed on because of proof of effectiveness. So there must be some other reason they are still studied and passed on. Does "tradition" have anything to do with it?
  8. MaverickZ is offline

    Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    But the techniques and practices that are non-functional, that stupid people keep studying...why do those techniques and practices keep getting passed from instructor to student? They aren't being passed on because of proof of effectiveness. So there must be some other reason they are still studied and passed on. Does "tradition" have anything to do with it?
    you must have missed it the first time. let me reitereate. people are stupid.
  9. Freakshow is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:42pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    you must have missed it the first time. let me reitereate. people are stupid.
    But those techniques have to come from SOMEWHERE. There must be some reason that one person wants to teach it, and some reasons that one person wasn't to learn it. "People are stupid" is too broad of an explanation. It doesn't get to the specifics of exactly why the stupid people do their stupid things, and where they get their stupid techniques and training practices from.

    "Why did the shuttle Challenger explode?"
    "People are stupid"

    Yeah, that's true. But it doesn't actually explain what happened and why.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 12:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    But the techniques and practices that are non-functional, that stupid people keep studying...why do those techniques and practices keep getting passed from instructor to student? They aren't being passed on because of proof of effectiveness. So there must be some other reason they are still studied and passed on. Does "tradition" have anything to do with it?
    Stupidity, and the desperate belief in non-sense. You wouldn't spend years learning something from your Sensei/Mastah/Big-Puhbah if you don't have the belief that **** actually works.

    A person like that honestly believes he will rise up to the challenge if a challenge comes. He will rationalize any non-sense in it, and will pay no attention to any logical though that challenges those believes. His no-touch punches, chi-blasts and never-ending kata/forms ballet are his sacred cow, his fundamentalism, his core beliefs.

    It's no different from the fundamentalist nutjob who believes in creationism despite all scientific evidence to the contrary and despite the fact every major religion organization condems it. It's not different from the abused spouse who rationalizes domestic violence. Well, not the same, but the idea is there.

    People are prone to believe in ****, and if that belief is prolonged over the years and become the foundation of what they do, of what they have devoted so many years of their lives, believe it, people will stick to it like if it came from God's mouth or something.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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