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  1. mrblackmagic is offline
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    My pleasure.

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2006 6:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: yang taichi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jose Conseco and I agree with you.
  2. mrblackmagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2006 6:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: yang taichi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    that was really random.
  3. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2006 7:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    as i said, it is just an excersise to learn how to drop weight. To fully get the principle of the drop step or falling step, you need to learn how to let gravity take over for an instant. This adds your weight and the acceleration of gravity to your hit. As you mention, it is something that you learn to add to regular footwork. Someone who has it down can do it from just standing, without a step.

    Alot of people are stuck on pushing with the legs when they hit. While this adds muscle strenth, it takes away your weight. Even when you tell people to drop or bend knees with the hit, they general do it while still SUPPORTING their own weight with the legs the whole time. The goal is that you make their face support your weight via your fist, for an instant. This requires that you freefall, even if only for 1 cm.

    So, to isolate this, in a front stance, when you hit and try to drop alittle, lifting the front foot helps insure that you are really dropping, or "falling" for the instant you make contact. When you get it, your feet can stay on the ground, and only the knee joints do the dropping.

    also, going up on the balls of the feet can be used to drop, or from on the balls going down to flat footed. Really good hitters can even come up and then add a tiny drop at the end of the hit.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  4. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2006 8:02pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Actually, I have to ask, DTT, have you ever actually done that or did it just sound good as you were typing it?
    I do it all the time.

    It is in both WT and Latosa Weapons System. There are many versions to this concept, but the technical "falling step" is done with the hit impact just before the front foot lands, thus it is off the ground. There are many other ways to do the principle of putting weight into the hit however.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 12:29am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    from Chapter 8 of Jack Dempsey's "Championship Fighting: Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defensive"

    THE FALLING STEP

    "Bend your knees slightly. Bend your body forward slightly as you shift your "weight forward on to your left foot", so that your "right foot" is resting only on the ball of the foot. Remember that the knees are still slightly bent. Teeter up and down easily (half bouncing without leaving the floor) to make certain you're in a comfortable, balanced position. "

    "NOW - WITHOUT ANY PREMLIMINARY MOVEMENTS - take a long, quick step forward with your "left" foot, toward the object at which your left toe had been pointing. I emphasize: "no preliminary movement before the step”. You unquestionably will be tempted to shift some of the weight from the "left" foot to the "right" foot, which is resting lightly on its ball. NO PRELIMINARY MOVEMENT!"

    "Just lift the "left" foot and LET THE BODY FALL FORWARD IN A LONG, QUICK STEP."

    "The "left" foot should land flat and solid on the floor at the end of the step."

    later in the chapter he says:

    "The solidity with which your "left" foot landed upon the floor was caused by your momentum. The late Joe Gans rarely missed with a long, straight punch; but, when he did you could hear for half a block the smack of his left sole on the canvas."

    I put this last part in for 2 reasons. First to emphasize the fact that it is a flat sole of the foot landing. It is not allready on the ball and just a drop of the heel.

    Second, when Joe Gans MISSED, there was energy still in his foot when he landed, to make a loud sound, but when he did HIT, that energy went into the target, and the foot was not loud on landing (this is implied from the content). So you must hit while falling, not before.

    This is to learn the concept. Many people do hit as the ball of the foot touches down, so just as the energy transfer goes into the target, and the hitter is left "falling" again, they are allready standing on the ground.

    I especially like the part where Dr. Dempsey says to LIFT the front foot to fall into the step.......:icon_cher

    later he also
    calls the step the trigger step:

    "Although the weight of your body was resting largely upon your "left" foot when you stepped off, you didn't fall to the floor. Why? Because the alert ball of your "right" foot came to the rescue frantically and gave your body a forward "spring" in a desperate attempt to keep your body balanced upright - to maintain its equilibrium. Your rescuing "right" foot acted not only as did the slope of the hill for the sledding boy, but also as a "springboard" in the side of the hill might have functioned had the sledding boy whizzed onto a springboard on the side of the hill. The "left" foot serves as a "trigger" to the spring the "right" foot. So, the falling step sometimes is called the "Trigger step""

    So you can see that in the Falling step theory, the lifting of the front foot triggers the whole effect.

    once you capture this long step, you can begin to shorten it, to the point where you are up on the balls and just drop the heel(s), or release the knees for an instant to drop, or other methods to get the same effect. But you need to learn to step off into the gravity well.....

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  6. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 2:05am

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have some training ideas in my punching article if you're interested.
  7. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 4:37am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In combination with footwork, sure, you take a step.

    Taking a step is NOT lifting your front leg up and falling onto it.

    There is no good reason to slam your foot down flat when you do this - toe heel works just as well and preserves your mobility.

    When you can punch, I'll care about your drill.

    Your drill where you tell a guy to lift the foot he's supposed to be landing on as he hits.

    And for ****'s sake, why do you say **** like "Step off into the gravity well"

    Are you trying to roll your pomposity score all the way over so it can be 0 again?
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 5/19/2006 4:40am at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 10:16am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its not MY drill, it was from Jack Dempsey.

    And HE says "step off", I just added the gravity well to show where you are getting the momentum from.

    Your missing the whole concept Jonn, and you are not talking about the "Falling Step" but simple weight dropping and grounded footwork. Its not just taking a step, it is "falling into the step". It is not the same as just stepping normal.

    Unless you think Jack Dempsey couldn't punch?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Taking a step is NOT lifting your front leg up and falling onto it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Dempsey
    Just lift the "left" foot and LET THE BODY FALL FORWARD
    I'll will go with Jack, Jack is usually right......

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  9. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 10:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jack Dempsey also fought from an extreme crouch with the majority of his weight on his front foot. For him to shift his power forwards he would need to physically raise it in the air to get his energy moving forward. If you fight out of an extreme crouch, you can use that point of view, but I doubt you do.

    There's an easy drill you can use to practice this with just a heavy bag or a partner holding a pad. It's in one of the first couple paragraphs of my article and is relatively self-explanatory.
  10. mrblackmagic is offline
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    My pleasure.

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 10:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: yang taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I forgot all about dempsey's book. Thanks everybody.
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