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  1. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 1:45pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    An open invitation, or question, rather.

    All this anti-IMA propaganda has really got my head spinning, lol. I honestly had no clue people were so closed-minded concerning these techniques.

    I can understand the skepticism, though, in light of all the half-baked and ridiculous claims that people make concerning mystical powers and the projection of invisible energy.

    I would like to go on record, however, as saying that IMA has nothing whatsoever to do with any of that, and any teacher worth the price of admission will tell you as much, so long as he isn't trying to fool you. (That CAN be a concern in these things, lol.)

    So what I'm wondering is this:

    If I were to prepare an instructional video demonstrating some of the basic standing meditation techiniques that are a regular part of IMA training, how many of you would be interested in approaching the subject with an open mind, trying the excercises for a little while, and sharing your experiences with the rest of the board?

    The actual fighting part we'll get to later, don't worry. I just believe that, once you've felt the benefit that these excercises have to offer, you won't be able to deny their effectiveness.

    The excercises will involve holding static postures with your arms in various positions while engaging in specific deep breathing techniques. They will work to increase nearly every aspect of your fighting art, regardless of particular mechanics of style or other training regimen.

    I am asking that you record both objective and subjective data to determine the effectiveness of this training technique. I would like to enlist the assistance of around ten volunteers.
  2. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 1:47pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    All this anti-IMA propaganda .
    *EH*

    Sorry, you lose.

    Questioning ridiculous statements that violate scientific fact and asking for more evidence for claims than anecdotes is NOT propaganda. It's call being intellectually rigorous, or alternately, not a gullible moron.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  3. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 1:53pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick
    *EH*

    Sorry, you lose.

    Questioning ridiculous statements that violate scientific fact and asking for more evidence for claims than anecdotes is NOT propaganda. It's call being intellectually rigorous, or alternately, not a gullible moron.
    I understand that. I was not aware of the high standards of proof the community was used to. Many who understand these things probably wouldn't bother wasting their time trying to explain or share them. Many who have no idea are more than willing to do so. I'm a little dumber than most, i guess, lol.

    But that's what I'm offering here. A way to start chiselling the fact from fiction and seeing exactly what this stuff has to offer.

    You wanna put your money where your mouth is and engage in some science, or you wanna hold on to your blind faith that there's nothing to it?

    Like an orgasm, it really is something that needs to be felt to be understood.
  4. Saker is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 1:57pm


     Style: boxing,savate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Go on then why not I'll have a crack. You do know you're onto a loser though? No way are you going to convert people with a work out video.
  5. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:00pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Saker
    Go on then why not I'll have a crack. You do know you're onto a loser though? No way are you going to convert people with a work out video.
    Lol.

    Well, it's the only thing I've got at the moment. :)

    I'll get some data from other sources, as I find it, but there's no substitute for first-hand experience.

    I'll have a vid out in a couple days fer ya.
  6. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:09pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know this isn't the exact place to ask these questions but didn't the guy who created Tai Chi refuse to teach anyone who wasn't already a master of a seperate art? (Other then the imperial family he was later told to teach) Of course I could be getting my arts mixed up.

    Personally I have no problem admitting IMA have some benefits but so does a placebo. I'm not claiming IMA are a complete fake but the analogy is still relevant.
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    I honestly had no clue people were so closed-minded concerning these techniques.
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    I just believe that, once you've felt the benefit that these excercises have to offer, you won't be able to deny their effectiveness.

    You are convinced without the evidence you seek, yet everyone else is "closed-minded" by remaining unconvinced and quite skeptical without the very same evidence.


    Somehow, I have a feeling what the outcome of this little "science" experiment is going to be before this gets off the ground, regardles of whatever is collected.


    Sorry, I have better things to do that standing around and seeing how much dust can collect on my body. So, I will not be volunteering.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

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  8. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:30pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinz
    I know this isn't the exact place to ask these questions but didn't the guy who created Tai Chi refuse to teach anyone who wasn't already a master of a seperate art? (Other then the imperial family he was later told to teach) Of course I could be getting my arts mixed up.

    Personally I have no problem admitting IMA have some benefits but so does a placebo. I'm not claiming IMA are a complete fake but the analogy is still relevant.
    No, that's not true at all. Many tai chi practicioners come from other backgrounds, and it's common practice in China to train first in an external style and then learn internal, but no master of the Yang lineage that I know of REQUIRED a student to know another art first.

    I'm sure it helps speed things up, though. The physical conditioning you get in another art serves you well before you know what you're doing.

    The analogy is relevant, thank you for mentioning it.

    A placebo relies on the mind's ability to manifest change. So does Taiji. The Taoists consider the body to be just another part of the mind. Control of one's mind equals into control of one's body.

    Interestingly enough, (and I can't find the source to cite this one, either, lol) there have been studies in the past year or so that helped push back the myth of "the wall" that runners and other endurance athletes reach.

    They've found that the body will lie to you and tell you that you have less energy than is really available to prevent you from taking it all the way to the limit. It's a way that it outsmarts your conscious desires and conserves the energy it needs to keep going. Your body doesn't know that the race is almost over, it just knows that if you keep doing what you're doing to it, eventually it's gonna run out of juice completely. A large part of the effects of muscular fatigue are purely mental, in other words.

    Another study, referenced in a psychology today article published last year cites the finding that clinical depression and heart disease are intimately related. Persons who have had a heart attack are four times more likely to suffer from clinical depression, and persons who suffer from clinical depression are ten times more likely to suffer from a heart attack. Sadly, the conclusion of the medical community was that prozac prevents heart attacks.

    All this is to speak to the fact that the mind has far more control over the body than we give it credit for.

    Consider the ability of the hypnotist to control bleeding in an entranced subject. Or reports of physical changes to the bodies of schizophrenic patients undergoing an episode.

    What this has to do with internal arts is simple. Maintaining a calm, focused, and balanced mind translates directly into a calm, focused, and balanced body.
  9. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:31pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    You are convinced without the evidence you seek, yet everyone else is "closed-minded" by remaining unconvinced and quite skeptical without the very same evidence.


    Somehow, I have a feeling what the outcome of this little "science" experiment is going to be before this gets off the ground, regardles of whatever is collected.


    Sorry, I have better things to do that standing around and seeing how much dust can collect on my body. So, I will not be volunteering.
    No, see, the evidence is personal experience, for me. Which is what I'm offering others.

    Who cares what some study published by the chinese board of health claims, what's important is what you can verify with your own experimentation.
  10. BoardHitBack is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:36pm


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    The excercises will involve holding static postures with your arms in various positions while engaging in specific deep breathing techniques. They will work to increase nearly every aspect of your fighting art, regardless of particular mechanics of style or other training regimen.

    I am asking that you record both objective and subjective data to determine the effectiveness of this training technique. I would like to enlist the assistance of around ten volunteers.
    Include the Yang Taiji forms. The totality of an IMA needs testing, not just a part of it.

    If you do, I'm in. Don't expect anything but honesty tho.
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