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  1. Plasma is offline
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    Bullshido Admin

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2006 7:07pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    "And mine says 'Desert Eagle .50' on the side."
    "Yours saids Replica"
  2. Roland is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2006 7:24pm


     Style: Taekwondo,Muay Thai, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what do people here think of the way the swiss government handles gun control?
  3. Antifa is offline
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    Sin Dios! Sin amos!

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2006 8:12pm

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     Style: Starting Over... Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland
    what do people here think of the way the swiss government handles gun control?

    Cant form an opion. dont have all the facts.

    I know they require ownership of military firearms by the entire adult population.

    But what are the rest of their laws
  4. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2006 8:34pm

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     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland
    what do people here think of the way the swiss government handles gun control?
    From what I've heard, I love it. A Neutral Pacifist nation with a automatic rifle-eqipped citizen militia. Riding Bicycles.

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    "Yours saids Replica"
    And now your little balls are shrinking.

    Who do you dig more: Boris the Blade, aka Boris the Bullet Dodger, or Bullet Tooth Tony?
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  5. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2006 8:46pm

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    From what I've heard, I love it. A Neutral Pacifist nation with a automatic rifle-eqipped citizen militia. Riding Bicycles.



    And now your little balls are shrinking.

    Who do you dig more: Boris the Blade, aka Boris the Bullet Dodger, or Bullet Tooth Tony?
    Boris the Bullet Dodger

    "Why do they call him that?"
    "Cause he dodges Bullets..."
  6. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2006 10:42pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    "Yours saids Replica"
    which should precipitate your balls into shrinking further, along with your presence. Now **** off.
  7. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2006 12:59am

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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    I found your post kind of hard to read so I'm going to reply to each section individually.
    Sorry if I didnīt make myself clear. I donīt know if Iīm gonna make myself clearere now, since Iīf just came home from a night out and am midly drunk right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    Jails are not equal to guns. Guns are a tool. Jails, are either for incarceration or rehabilitation, depending on what you're using it for. Jails can also be a source of cheap labor for the state too, but let's just avoid that arguement for now. What exactly is your point here? I've looked at this several times and I don't get it. Jails (in theory) remove unlikeable elements from societies so that the rest of society is not spent trying to defend itself against it. Guns on the other hand, I contend, are a tool. It's a proven fact that criminals prey on the weaker people out there - that they choose their victims based on how easy it would be to make said person a victim.

    Path of least resistance and all that jazz.

    Anyways I think I need you to reexplain this part of your arguement for me to properly understand the context for which you are applying it.
    I was just trying to state how absurd your argument could be if taken to the limit. Cars are for driving, altrought they can be lethal if used with intent to harm. But guns first purpose is to shoot something at big speed, usually to make a hole in some other thing. Or in other words, guns are for killing (yeah, yeah, target shooting and all that stuff, but you know what I mean). Thus, people with a record of violent crimes should not be able to get guns, since itīs just giving them more tools (and very efficent tools) to perform such doings.

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    You can get alot more than just that over here. You pay thousands in court costs, fines, have the potential for jail time, and god only knows what else. So are you saying if I get busted for a DUI I should never be able to drive again? Because that is basically how gun control would work.


    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    So violent criminals lose their ability to defend themselves as well? What if they live in a rough neighborhood, have rehabilitated, and are trying to make a life for themselves while protecting their family? Rehabilitation is the key. A violent person is just that - A VIOLENT PERSON. The gun is simply a means to an end. Someone can kill me just as easily with a knife as a gun or a rock for that matter.
    The rehab thing is another issue. Again your argument is, since if they wanted to kill you, theyīd figure out a way, why not giving them easy means? Just because a lion could eat you, you donīt have to jump in its cage.

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    Tell that to britain. You think people would want to mug grandma if she wore a 357 revolver around and was trained on how to use it for defense? Possibly, but you know they'd think twice, at bare minimum. Also, for the record I'd much rather be shot than stabbed.

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    On one level I agree, and on another I disagree. For one, if you're going to say violent crime, you really need to quantify WHICH violent crimes. Rape? Murder? Terrorism? Technically the american founders were murdering terrorists. So more quantification is necessary. I should start a thread on the symantics of the word terrorism and how IT needs more quantification. But I digress. I see your point but I think this issue will never be resolved until people can learn to be more disciplined with their own lives. Humankind is a mess right now.
    I didnīt mention terrorism. FYI I was thinking in robbers, assaulters, and pro assasins, and the such.

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    ok...? So are you contending that you've NOT commited a violent crime, therefore you should be eligible for self defense weapons? Even though that makes you a potential threat against your governmental officials?

    Yes, I should be eleigible to legally carry a gun to defend myself, based on the supposition that, since criminals (assaulters and the like) break the law (assault is illegal, you know), they may aswell break another laws, like, say, carrying knives, maze, swithblades, clubs, or even guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    And this is the other arguement of 'gun control'. Are you really controlling anything? The devices still exist so unless you completely unmake what a gun is and the knowledge of how to produce one, a criminal can get them no matter what. All you're doing is reducing the non-violent civilian populace's accessibility to one. Unless of course you're stating violent criminals,
    Itīs the same issue. Just because a criminal may find a mean to get a gun, we shouldnīt make it easier for him. In fact, we should make it harder for him.


    [QUOTE=saturnjunkie]So are you saying non criminal civilians should be able to get defensive weapons and violent criminals should not? What about people who haven't been caught yet? Does it make a difference? No. Educate them well, hopefully they won't denegrate, give everyone an e
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
    qual opportunity to defense, and then find an EFFECTIVE way to rehabilitate the offenders. That would be my 2 cent solution.
    Iīm all about making jails a rahab centeners, and Iīm all about educatign people to be respectfull with everybody. Do you think I wouldnīt rather live in a world where nobody would get robbed or mugger or assaulted or such? No, bu until that day comes...
  8. jubei33 is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2006 3:51am


     Style: Boxing, Solar Ray Attack

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Antifa
    I'm an Anarchist so... in principle... No.

    I believe in direct community control so... maybe a village or neighboorhood might want to have some rules about what sorts of things they have around.

    But generally speaking if you dont want a certain kind of somebody living near you with a gun, they you dont want them living near you at all... or even living at all.

    Thats my 2 cents
    How could you possibly have 'direct community control' under those circumstances?
    http://woodwardswhiskey.wordpress.com/

    He was punching him like the collective karmic debt he'd accrued was coming to collections, mostly on his face.
  9. MrMcHarHar is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2006 4:12am


     Style: Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "From what I've heard, I love it. A Neutral Pacifist nation with a automatic rifle-eqipped citizen militia. Riding Bicycles."

    Not everybody in the swiss army rides bicycles. In fact, i'm not even sure the bycicle troops still exist, because there was a huge army reform, where they changed a lot. For example at the time when i was doing my basic military service, everybody that aspired for a military carreer had to do the exact same basic military service (15weeks) . Nowadays, aspirants for officer get separated after a few weeks (i think its 6 weeks or so). However it is still the case that we have to join the army every year for three weeks (repetition course, swiss slang "WK").

    Because I'm a full time student, so far I haven't done any of these repetition courses, i always claimed that i have examinations to do (which was true in fact) . Yet even in that case, the army expect you to go to an official shooting range and attend the "Bundesprogramm" (20 rounds on 300m =approx 300yd) .
    Actually I do not have any problems with that, because it needs just a morning, and it ensures that i still know how to assemble my rifle, fire it and clean it.

    From the gun control perspective, with these military weapons, the crime rate is quite low, which is not so amazing, because the serial number of your personal weapon is registered in your service booklet, and the people owning these rifles (like me) usually don't even want to own them. (if I had been given the option of not joining the army, I wouldn't have joined it)
    What occasionally (maybe once every second/third year) happens is what the media call "extended suicide", meaning a family father that has lost Job/house/... and is so desperate that he shoots his kids, his wife and himself. Usually the left parties and the media then start a discussion why keeping military weapons at home is bad. Then again a lot of these extended suicides are done without any firearm, for example there was one guy who killed his kids with a hammer.
    (So my personal opinion is that guns do not make a society safer, but also they are not responsible for a violent society.)

    From the very often discussed "home defense" perspective, I think these rifles are worth ****. First of all the Stgw 90 (SIG 550) with one or two loaded clips is about 9 pounds heavy. When fired FA, a clip does not even hold for 2 seconds and the recoil is immense, so i think I would use it semi auto or in burst mode.
    In the end, inside a room, i think with a good 9mm you would hit more, and be more flexible etc. This is one of the reasons why i do keep it in little parts, each one stored at a different point. The other one is that opening the emergency ammo without a reason is punished as a severe crime.

    The gun laws for normal private gun ownership in switzerland were usually also less restrictive than in other parts of europe (I think you could sell your gun to your friend without registering), but they recently changed that due to pressure from the european union i think.

    I hope i didnt bore you too much...
  10. MrMcHarHar is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2006 4:13am


     Style: Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sorry for posting twice..
    If you are interested, go to www.armee.ch
    They have even a small section in english (even though they make at least as many mistakes in writing as I do)
    Last edited by MrMcHarHar; 4/30/2006 4:50am at .
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