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  1. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 11:03pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    Science is a big political clusterfuck where a computer generated nonsense paper can get accepted through peer review.
    Agreed. This is one reason I'm not as thrilled as I was about going to graduate school for psychology. The research world is a clusterfuck of mostly ignorant people.
  2. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 1:36am

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinz
    Agreed. This is one reason I'm not as thrilled as I was about going to graduate school for psychology. The research world is a clusterfuck of mostly ignorant people.
    But we were talking about science, not psychology...
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  3. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 3:28am

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    I understand that. I was not aware of the high standards of proof the community was used to. Many who understand these things probably wouldn't bother wasting their time trying to explain or share them. Many who have no idea are more than willing to do so. I'm a little dumber than most, i guess, lol.

    But that's what I'm offering here. A way to start chiselling the fact from fiction and seeing exactly what this stuff has to offer.

    You wanna put your money where your mouth is and engage in some science, or you wanna hold on to your blind faith that there's nothing to it?

    Like an orgasm, it really is something that needs to be felt to be understood.
    For the record, I am not even remotely interested in doing this, since I am not remotely interested in doing things that make no sense.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  4. eyebeams is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 8:28am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak
    So it sounds like you'll be right at home at a throwdown. The best thing for IMA right now would be for you to represent in a safe environment where you could show us your stuff clearly works.

    I'm not saying deathmatch, but if you do anything short of roll over and die with your IMA it would do wonders for the IMA community.
    Most of the IMA community is not really interested in fighting.

    Evidence that it works? Sure. It's even been on this site. Repulsive Monkey's acquitted himself well with Wu Tai Chi. Asia does Baji (there's a Throwdown vid around where he's doing recognizable Baji in standup). Outside of Bullshido, you have schools like Shenwu who do fine.

    But the average IMA practitioner is looking for meditation and health benefits seasoned with, at best, the most elementary self-defense skills. They can get them, too. Knowing how to absorb pushes and align your body to hit something is of *some* use.

    But if you want to get good, you need to put the time and the proper methods in. We all know what these are. But sometimes you get guys who think that their degree of training is enough to claim ability by association with a style.

    Now, I don't begrudge the people I train beside who do it for health. Some of them have quite a bit to teach me about foundational stuff. But they can't fight.

    Folks like Peng? I don't like 'em.
  5. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 8:32am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm going to post instructions on my yoga fighting form (once I start taking yoga). I can't wait to learn how to do yoga fire, yoga flame, and that cool streatchy arm sweep.
  6. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 10:49am


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    But we were talking about science, not psychology...
    I hate you...
  7. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 10:59am


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    No, see, the evidence is personal experience, for me. Which is what I'm offering others.

    Who cares what some study published by the chinese board of health claims, what's important is what you can verify with your own experimentation.
    Ummm....no. What matters is what can be consistently reproduced in a controlled setting (I mean "controlled" from a perspective of the scientific method, in case any anti-mma "the UFC is a controlled environment, not like teh str33t" people are reading this). Personal anecdotes do not matter, as they are heavily susceptible to personal feelings, selection bias, and lack of any controls in the experiment.
  8. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 11:01am


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Saker
    Go on then why not I'll have a crack. You do know you're onto a loser though? No way are you going to convert people with a work out video.
    It worked for Tae Bo!!! :laughing7
  9. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 1:53pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by drew-jitsu
    While I agree with everything you write in your post, I find it very insightful into your personality. My point being that you ferverantly pursue a scientific discipline that for the most part you're claiming is bullshit. What does that speak about the martial art that you're practicing? I'm not trying to be combative here or insult you, I just would like to know what is your motivation for pursuing a science you don't believe in, or for that matter a martial art you don't believe in. I to am a scientist (biochemist). I would just like some clarification here as to your motivations.

    Regarding statistics... As a self proclaimed master of multivariate analysis, I disagree with the acsertations you make regarding statistics. The reason you increase sample size is to gain statistical significance. A study based on 3 people is hardly meaningful so you must increase sample size. Yet regarding sample size, I think you'd be hard pressed to claim that increasing sample size could make the effect on humans watching TV causes dophins to ejaculate prematurely significant.
    Hey, sorry I didn't see your post addressed to me untill now. As for why I persue science, I more or less fell into it. I cannot speak for chem or bio as much as I can speak for psychology. I dislike alot of what I'm seeing in psych research. Not what they are coming up with but more their methods and lack of simple basic logic. They care more about p values then anything else. I don't argue that science is a complete waste but alot of psych is based on bullshit. Its researchers are more concerned with the business of science and less with the science itself. They publish things that they never attempted to replicate and in alot of instances the study is NEVER replicated, or if it is replicated and turns out not to get the same results it is look upon as being the experimenters mess up. I'm not claiming this is the way all science is or this is the way all of psych is, but a large majority of it is exactly like this.

    As for the sample size/significance thing, actually given enough people you would find a significant result for anything that can be put into a test (keep in mind I'm not stating which side of a two-way test it would be on). As for stats in general, if you are a stats master you should agree that our current stats system has very basic flaws but alot of people treat its results as gospel. I would enjoy a shift away from stats being the be all end all of research.

    As for my art, the more I learned about my art the more I disliked it. I'm currently pursueing other arts but since I'm getting ready to graduate college I have to wait untill I'm moved back to Austin, TX to attempt fighting a new school.

    Thanks for the response. Sorry if this seems more like a rant then a polite response. I'm currently in a research lab lol.
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2006 1:59pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Psychology is just a branch of philosophy that likes to speak in psuedo-scientific terms.
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