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  1. Seraphim is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:38pm


     Style: Karate, Sadism, Violence.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng

    The excercises will involve holding static postures with your arms in various positions while engaging in specific deep breathing techniques. They will work to increase nearly every aspect of your fighting art, regardless of particular mechanics of style or other training regimen.
    How the hell is that going to make me a better fighter?

    Hurting people(fighting) is simplistic. Fist > Face. Repeat as needed.
  2. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, if I understand you now correctly, you are really saying that the benefit of Taji is, in reality, due to the placebo effect?


    And if I also understand you now correctly, you are no longer interested in the "objective" portion of the study you defined?


    :rolleyes:
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  3. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:48pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    So, if I understand you now correctly, you are really saying that the benefit of Taji is, in reality, due to the placebo effect?


    And if I also understand you now correctly, you are no longer interested in the "objective" portion of the study you defined?


    :rolleyes:

    No, you do not understand me correctly.

    Taiji makes use of the power of the mind to affect the body. This same power is sometimes evident in what we call the placebo effect. If the mind believes it has been given something to combat a disease and is convinced of it's effectiveness, the body is often better able to combat the disease. The mind is a powerful thing.

    I am most definitely interested in the objective portion. I'm a bit at a loss as to how to gather the data. Heart rate monitors, vo2(???) testing, respiration tests. I would be most appreciative of the input of someone with more knowledge concerning what and how to measure to determine effectiveness of excercise.

    Ultimately, however, the effectiveness of the excercise is determined by the individual performing it. All the data in the world won't convince someone determined to prove it wrong.
  4. peng is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:48pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim
    How the hell is that going to make me a better fighter?

    Hurting people(fighting) is simplistic. Fist > Face. Repeat as needed.
    I'm not about to start discussing theory yet, lol.

    That'll come later.
  5. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:49pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This would probably be a good time to mention the other thing I do all day is experimental psychology. You will almost never be able to prove that Tai chi is actually the cause for any benefit to health as apposed to any other martial art, atleast never with an objective test.

    As for the healthy mind/healthy body thing, that is only true to a certain degree. Mental health and physical health are two things people tend to grab and run with. Simply because you are mentally healthy/stable/focused doesn't mean you will be phsyically healthy. There are correlations between the two but they are simply that. Correlations don't prove ANYTHING. They simple mean: A causes B, B causes A, or C causes A & B. They are near worthless. Although the psychological community loves to use them because that means they have something easy to publish. Also most studies that are performed and published are trash. Did you know with a big enough sample size you can make any finding significant? Even if it only was different by .0000001% you should still find it statistically significant.

    The more you learn the more things fall apart. The more about psychology I learn the more I learn how flawed most of the things people try to relate as fact are. Hell a large majority of psychological studies aren't even repeated to check to see if they weren't an utter fluke. Psychological science is about getting crap published not about actually finding some truth. More of are considered with P values then actual effects in their studies as well.

    (There is a point in there but it is probably lost in a Rant...)
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by peng
    Ultimately, however, the effectiveness of the excercise is determined by the individual performing it. All the data in the world won't convince someone determined to prove it wrong.

    Then it stands to reason that all the data to the contrary won't convince someone determined to prove it right, either. Wouldn't you agree?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  7. CNagy is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:51pm


     Style: Hiatus for Gen. Fitness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You provide the exercises, I'll give my own experiences using them. However, it would probably be useful to provide some sort of criteria as to what areas these exercises will/should improve. I'm willing to do this, but it'll be empirical--measurable results only, not some feelgood effect.
  8. Plasma is online now
    Plasma's Avatar

    Bullshido Admin

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    Jul 2005
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    7,076

    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:52pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why haven't you killed yourself yet?
  9. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:53pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KageKaze
    Why haven't you killed yourself yet?
    Not enough Chi flow yet. It takes years to be able to focus the flow that way.
  10. peng is offline

    Registered Member

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    Apr 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2006 2:54pm


     Style: Yang Taiji, Hsing-I

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinz
    This would probably be a good time to mention the other thing I do all day is experimental psychology. You will almost never be able to prove that Tai chi is actually the cause for any benefit to health as apposed to any other martial art, atleast never with an objective test.

    As for the healthy mind/healthy body thing, that is only true to a certain degree. Mental health and physical health are two things people tend to grab and run with. Simply because you are mentally healthy/stable/focused doesn't mean you will be phsyically healthy. There are correlations between the two but they are simply that. Correlations don't prove ANYTHING. They simple mean: A causes B, B causes A, or C causes A & B. They are near worthless. Although the psychological community loves to use them because that means they have something easy to publish. Also most studies that are performed and published are trash. Did you know with a big enough sample size you can make any finding significant? Even if it only was different by .0000001% you should still find it statistically significant.

    The more you learn the more things fall apart. The more about psychology I learn the more I learn how flawed most of the things people try to relate as fact are. Hell a large majority of psychological studies aren't even repeated to check to see if they weren't an utter fluke. Psychological science is about getting crap published not about actually finding some truth. More of are considered with P values then actual effects in their studies as well.

    (There is a point in there but it is probably lost in a Rant...)
    Well, see I'm not really out to prove it as opposed to another martial art. I'm interested in showing how particular training techniques are effective in improving fighting ability and physical conditioning.
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