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  1. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
    Fighting Cephalopod's Avatar

    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 7:30am

    supporting member
     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ceccine's original series, Lost Art Of Hooking, has some good and useful material, as well as some stuff that will never, ever work on anyone with a pulse. It is my understanding that the good and useful material was later shown to be "borrowed" from Fujiwara's submission bible and Wade Schalle's legride tapes, often to the exact sequences (and occasional verbatim descriptions) .

    One of my first submission coaches, Glenn Ortiz, trained for a while with Tony. Glenn is a phenomenal leglock guy and excellent grappler (second person ever to submit Jeff Glover in competition), but as he has trained with many different people and styles it is difficult to attribute his skill to Tony or Catch wrestling, atlhough he often refers to himself as a catch wrestler. Glenn eventually stopped associating himself with Tony due to the allegations of fraud (due to the Wade Schalles/Fujiwara material being uncredited and claimed as stuff he'd learned from an unverifiable Old School Catch Wrestler) which he claimed were true and accurate. Glenn, while an emotional guy who tends to run hot and cold on people, is a very honest person and I do not believe he would deliberately lie.

    Cecchine claims a bad back prevents him from competing or rolling hard. None of his students compete. He claims his Catch is "for the street, not competition", an assertion that I view as patently absurd considering Catch is based on competition in a ring.

    The only pro fighters that have associated themselves with Cecchine in any way to my knowledge are Shonie Carter, who trained with him to a limited extent and endorsed him as a submission coach, and Josh Barnett, who never trained with Tony but watched the Lost Art Of Hooking dvds and gave them a favorable review.
  2. DdlR is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 8:08am

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For information on the original Lancashire-style Catch-as-catch-can wrestling, the legendary Snake Pit gym in Wigan, the connection to Japanese submission wrestling, etc. see -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Wrestling
    http://www.aspullolympicwrestlingclub.co.uk/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Riley
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Robinson
  3. riceavenger is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 12:57am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I train at the Rutgers Brazilian jiu-jitsu where Glenn Ortiz coaches. I remember one time asking him about catch wrestling and having him respond "Don't even talk to me about catch wrestling". Huh, I guess that would explained what happened. Anyways, these days he is sponsered by Scientificwrestling.com's Jake Shannon, who is anti-Cecchine as well.
  4. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 1:32am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My shooto coach learnt Catch Wrestling in Japan when he was competing in Pancrase.

    Unfortunatly he had never heard of Tony Checcine so I couldn't get an opinion on him.
  5. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 4:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    My shooto coach learnt Catch Wrestling in Japan when he was competing in Pancrase.

    Unfortunatly he had never heard of Tony Checcine so I couldn't get an opinion on him.

    That would be he Greek guy Larry who runs your gym wouldn't it ?

    He was 3 times national shoot wrestling champion of Australia I heard.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  6. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 11:23am

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by riceavenger
    I train at the Rutgers Brazilian jiu-jitsu where Glenn Ortiz coaches. I remember one time asking him about catch wrestling and having him respond "Don't even talk to me about catch wrestling". Huh, I guess that would explained what happened.
    Yeah, after the whole ridiculous fallout with Tony, not to mention Tony badmouthing Glenn on his forum, I imagine he's pretty sick of explaining the whole thing.
  7. JBliss is offline
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    Don't mess with the Mega-Buster

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    Out there man, way out there
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    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 1:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: A+B, D-Pad

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My friend Nick gave me some of those tapes to watch, and while the material was interesting, I found most of it to be far less pragmatic and scientific than the general approach I associate with modern submission fighting. Alot of the stuff he showed might work if you had the muscle, and alot of it sacrifces position for a submission atempt that isn't structually secure and looks far more precarious than most standard subs. If you have a solid game already and you take a look , you might see some things you can incorporate, if your a newb I don't think the info will do you any good. And for the record...Matt furey's material is lame, way below Cechhine. My opinion.
    Secret moves such as hitting a thing with your hand and hitting a thing with your leg have been stolen and degenerated by arts like karate, boxing, muay-thai, Kung-fu, and basketball. -Epicurious

    I for one welcome our new Ninja overlords.
    -Whiteshark

    I figure fighting a group of chunners would be like water torture, its not the force as such, just the constant trickle of chain punches wearing down your sanity. -The Juggernoob
  8. JBliss is offline
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    Don't mess with the Mega-Buster

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    Out there man, way out there
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    694

    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 1:04pm

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     Style: A+B, D-Pad

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and way to ressurect something from the way back
    Secret moves such as hitting a thing with your hand and hitting a thing with your leg have been stolen and degenerated by arts like karate, boxing, muay-thai, Kung-fu, and basketball. -Epicurious

    I for one welcome our new Ninja overlords.
    -Whiteshark

    I figure fighting a group of chunners would be like water torture, its not the force as such, just the constant trickle of chain punches wearing down your sanity. -The Juggernoob
  9. QuickJab is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 1:27pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Josh Barnett is now sponsored by Jake Shannon's scientific wrestling group. Its a cool site http://scientificwrestling.com/
    Scientific Wrestling


    I don't why they don't translate Fujiwara's tapes into english.
  10. Bry is offline

    Registered Member

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    Texas
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    Posted On:
    4/27/2006 2:30pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know a gentleman from another forum who kinda said the same thing about catch wrestling, that alot of the techniques are muscle techniques.

    Bry
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