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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    5/25/2006 11:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kyokushinkid
    only if your fast! if not....:owneddanc
    I don't have to be faster than everyone else.


    I just have to be faster than you.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  2. Oscar Goldman is offline
    Oscar Goldman's Avatar

    Judo: the anti-trapple

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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    251

    Posted On:
    8/22/2006 12:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    Maybe if the Oyama people had found better representatives of Wing Chun than a few flabby bodied dishwashers from Hong Kong?
    In my 4-5 years of WC I could count the number of athletic people I worked out with on my hands, so the dishwashers may be all you get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinosaur AMP
    You just can't go wrong when your getting armbar'd to Flogging Molly while a fire fighter is cursing at you in the background. Good stuff!
  3. Yrkoon9 is offline
    Yrkoon9's Avatar

    Brock Sampson

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    Jun 2004
    Location
    Land of the Living
    Posts
    4,590

    Posted On:
    8/22/2006 2:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    Maybe if the Oyama people had found better representatives of Wing Chun than a few flabby bodied dishwashers from Hong Kong?

    Or a more competent muay thai fighter that wasn't outweighed by 60 lbs. and didn't seem to know how to use his hands?

    Or maybe even ONE represenatative of KMA? Hee Il Cho or Pu Gil Gwon or any of those early 1970s Koreans would have hung in there with the best of that crowd (yeah, flame away), and maybe even have won the whole thing.

    Or maybe the entire documentary was a set-up to make kyokushin look good? (GASP!)

    No.

    First of all it was an OPEN style tournament. You think these WC people were hand picked? By and large the majority of competitors were Kyokushin, but you saw all kinds of styles there.

    For example the Muay Thai stylist did very well. He withdrew in a later match.because he realized the weight differential would destroy him. The WC people didn't even get past the first round. They were horribly embarrassed.

    The problem that none of the _ing _un people want to own up to is that they have very few competent, athletic practioners who COULD do well in that environment of full contact knockdown karate. This is compounded by the fact that they have the same problem in ANY format - especially today in MMA.

    And for the record I doubt that Cho or Gwon would have done very well in that style of competition. Korean stylists are at a severe disadvantage when you add leg kicks into the mix.
  4. Bluto Blutarsky is offline

    Senior Member

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    Jul 2005
    Location
    NYC!
    Posts
    1,244

    Posted On:
    8/22/2006 4:56pm


     Style: Mostly drinking. E-chaun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Acadian fury
    i always use a palm hit to the back of the skull, or even a good knee while they are going down.....I am very agile, 4 years of wrestling in school helped me for that. Hence the top answer

    I have also taken many years of wrestling. When I was in jr. high and high school. Combined with training now, and just common sense, that is NOT a good way to defend a takedown. If you were to find some way to stop the forward motion of a takedown first, Ie: sprawl, then palm him in the back of his head or piss on his back for all i care to your heart's delight.

    I have heard that touted as a way to actually stop a takedown, but if you see an example of it working it is not because the "palm" stops the takedown, it is because the momentum is stopped for some other reason/technique and the palm/fist is the punishment given because the person is now in a shitty position.

    But the palm alone? or the knee alone? no way. In highschool did you ever practice changeovers? raise your knee and the moment you moved it off the ground you have now effectively decreased your resistance to the takedown by half. Again you need to find a way to stop the forward momentum that is reliable and can be repeatedly used.
  5. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ?????????
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    2,736

    Posted On:
    8/22/2006 5:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Not.....working

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    Maybe
    Maybe!
  6. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
    Fighting Cephalopod's Avatar

    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Jun 2005
    Location
    new jersey
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    2,981

    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 12:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    Just like the muay thai guy. He did OK, but he hardly used his hands.
    Before the Dutch influence, traditional Muay Thai had very limited handwork. Punches are the least-scoring technique under traditional Thai rules. In the time period we are talking about, very few thai fighters would have had anything approaching good boxing.

    Muay thai fighters come in all sizes,
    No, Thai fighters come in "small" and "smaller", typically. They're not a large people to begin with and most of them are chronically undernourished, something which was even more true back then than it is today.
  7. Vulgar42Ox is offline

    Registered Member

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    Aug 2006
    Location
    New York
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    699

    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 1:37pm


     Style: BJJ, JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i take the dreaded jeet kune do, and we do a lot of your dreaded wing tsun, and just as an FYI to do most of the wing chun techniques you cant have boxing gloves on. i think a guy who strictly did wing tsun would get beat up in ufc, but i don think knowledge of wing chun can hurt at all.
  8. I aint punchy!? is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    686

    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 4:31pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh dear... such a noob.

    Knowledge of Wing Chun can hurt because it can fill your head with a whole lot of unapplied nonsense that will get you bashed in a fight.

    Thats not to say that it couldnt be effective in some utopian universe... but in order to make it effective Wing Chun would have to be made full-contact in its training (something more akin to Kyokushin)... if it made this big step then it would be more respectable, more practical, and probably do well in NHB style competitions... along with all other full-contact MAs like MT, boxing, Judo, BJJ etc etc.
  9. PointyShinyBurn is offline
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar

    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Jul 2005
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    London, UK
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    Posted On:
    8/23/2006 5:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    Well, we'll never know now, will we? Don't make the mistake applying what Korean stylists do today with what they did 33 years ago. Its two completely different eras, with two completely different styles, two completely different ways of training, with two completely different sets of weapons.

    Its like criticizing the US military for not using their Tomahawk missiles and smart bombs in Vietnam. It would be a valid criticism, if it applied to the time.
    So, strained metaphors aside, did the TKD fighters of the 70s learn to use and defend leg kicks or not?
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