MAP believes "I don't get it"

**Virus** · Posted On: 5/09/2006 10:18pm

Bencole suggests that alive video footage is impossible to get becuase real taijutsu makes the uke look like he can't fight. He also suggests that if the opponent is resisting then you aren't doing it right. Real taijutsu doesn't leave room for resistance. I head that many times from guys I trained with. Again, bujinkan gives us very good and original reasons why you will never see it work, however I prefer the simpler explanation.

**MONGO** · Posted On: 5/09/2006 10:27pm

Seriously, I'm telling you that Ben is a scholar, not a fighter.
Arguing with him through writing is almost an impossible feat because of his ability to double speak and the constant greying of the issue.

The BJK may have live training, but it is not around in Japan or many of the people I have trained with. Sure people get hurt when they train but much of the techniques are base on unrealistic attacks and leads the entire series of drills down an unrealistic path.

Just leave it at that.

Just remember, there are no LARPtastic days in a competition base MA. The competition keeps you honest. Just leave idiots like grimjack to their own destruction.
You can head off to do Judo, BJJ and whatever you like and leave the nutriding ninjas to their own little world. A world where the only punch thrown is a lunge punch and you can avoid being taken to the ground.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 5/09/2006 10:35pm

Bottomline BenCole or his ilk will never put up or shut up. It much easier to fool yourself than to face your shortcomings.

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 5/09/2006 11:36pm

Oh Virus....just read what he said...that's amazing.

For those who didn't see

Originally Posted by Bencole

If you are practicing on someone who is in a position to resist, THEN YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. End of story. This holds true for the Bujinkan practitioners here who have stated that they use "alive methods." Let me repeat myself:

If you attempt to put a technique on someone and he is in a position to resist, you are doing it wrong. The technique will ALWAYS be "better" and "easier" if the uke CANNOT resist. Focus your time on that.

In order to "resist," you have to have something as a base. When you don't have that base, it doesn't work. Have you ever tried to put a wrist lock on someone under water? I have. It doesn't work, UNLESS you can post a base ON the uke.

Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is like doing martial arts under water. Things just work differently if you are moving correctly.

As to the calls for videos, this has been touched on in other threads (most recently with Sonshu). If someone is doing Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu CORRECTLY, on video, the uke will look like a bumbling fool, who cannot punch, has the wrong timing and the wrong distance.

So basically when your that good at Taijutsu after years and years of compliant drilling, no one will be able to touch you and anyone that does will LOOK compliant (hence why all live videos look like LARPing..THEY ARE THAT GOOD!).

That's amazing. I swear someone should Gong Sau him just for that comment alone. Let him know what it feels like to have his bubble burst as well as his face. If he's an instructor then I pity his students, and wish them the best of luck when some untrained drunk decides to pick a fight with them at the local bar or 7 eleven.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 5/09/2006 11:39pm

That was one of the dumbest things I've ever read!

This is a clear example of what WRONG with the Buj mentality.

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 5/09/2006 11:46pm

Originally Posted by LORD ASIA

That was one of the dumbest things I've ever read!

This is a clear example of what WRONG with the Buj mentality.

Wait wait wait...lets not rush to judgement. I think he may be on to something here. If he's in a position to resist then you're being a ninja wrong. Ninjas should be stealthy and crafty. Take away his base huh? I think he means throw two shurikens into his thighs before the fight. Then the techniques work great! BenCole is a genius!

**Virus** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 12:06am

Let him know what it feels like to have his bubble burst

As long as that's an underwater bubble.

Edit: Seriously, WTF!!!!111!1!!!

Originally Posted by Bencole

Have you ever tried to put a wrist lock on someone under water? I have. It doesn't work, UNLESS you can post a base ON the uke.

Has he ever put on an armbar on lava? I have. Check..and..mate.

**Kung-Fu-Ramma** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 12:24am

Originally Posted by KempoFist

Wait wait wait...lets not rush to judgement. I think he may be on to something here. If he's in a position to resist then you're being a ninja wrong. Ninjas should be stealthy and crafty. Take away his base huh? I think he means throw two shurikens into his thighs before the fight. Then the techniques work great! BenCole is a genius!

A big part of Enshin is to time it where they are off gaurd and attack from your position, usually being the blind spot, just before they can position themselves, i.e. I parry the kick and attack as their foot is inches above the ground, thus they are unable to retaliate and as for throws there would be absolutey no resistance.

Taijutsu and Ninjutsu is still pretty gay though, just saying you can force them to have no resistance. We all know pirates kick the crap out of ninjas anyways :icon_pira .

**AAAhmed46** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 12:31am

When i left my old school, i seriously considered taking up ninjutsu.

Thank god that didnt happen.

**Virus** · Posted On: 5/10/2006 1:24am

I've heard of people training for the street, but that's the first time I've ever heard someone say they train for t3h w4t3r.

People on MAp believe that I came here and posted my "Leaving the Bujinkan" thread so I could feel better about my choice, let me just say that the MAP guys have been giving me all the reassurance I could ever need that I made the right choice.