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  1. X_plosion is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 6:47am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    AFAIK, There's the legend of the so-called 5 Ancestors who were connected to Shaolin Temple. There's thousands of variations on who they were and what they did.

    Then, There is a style Known as Five Ancestors Fist (AKA Ngo Cho Kun, Wu Zu Quan) that got its name because it was based on five separate styles. It was developed in Fujian, China. Some of its forms are quite similar to Goju Ryu and Uechi Ryu Karate. Considering that Okinawans interacted a lot with the Fujian Chinese, then it seems quite reasonable to assume that it could have influenced these Karate styles.

    A similar art to this is Fujian White Crane. It is separate from Shaolin White Crane, which again is different from Tibetan White Crane/Hop Ga/Lama Pai. The first two previously mentioned white crane styles also claim to have influenced Okinawan Karate (dizzy yet?)

    Anyway, these are all separate from Choy Li Fut. CLF was developed in Guangdong province, where the Tibetan White Crane/Lama Pai/Hop Ga also flourished.
  2. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 7:56am

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolinz
    Read the MT article about the Americans getting threatened with coke bottles...
    Just did. Nasty. That last elbow sounds like a real doozy.

    Still, serves them right for picking on the poor little Thais.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 10:48am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    Yeah, gee, maybe you should find somebody on the board that actually has done 5 ancestors. 5 Ancestor Kung-fu has spawned several different styles most notably southern systems. Many styles claim to be linked to the 5 ancestors. Sometimes translated as the 5 houses of striking when refering to the techniques alone. 5 is a very key thing and it's not a direct style per se as much as a group of styles. Choy Li Fut, Hung-gar, Lohan, Fut Gar, and Eagle Claw all lay claim to the lineage. Hung-gar specifically likes to lay direct credit for the spawning of kempo lineage in American culture.

    But what do I know I'm just a MMA fighter. I wouldn't look into the history all that much except to say that most teachers could not lay claim to the lineage without having strong fighting background. Usually eluding to connections with the triads.
    Bah! Your chi-blasts are weak and you don't prance on one leg...

    Thanks pple for your responses. Besides the history, I was also interested in knowing what makes Choy Li Fut the style it is. I'm not looking to this style vs this other style kind of thing, but an overall description of it, from a technical and impartial point of view...

    Another question for teh Omega... based on your experience with 5 ancestors, do you see a commonality (or lack thereof) between the style(s) you have trained and Choy Li Fut?
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 10:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    Yeah, gee, maybe you should find somebody on the board that actually has done 5 ancestors.
    Well, I have. So that makes 2 of us.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 11:45am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    Well, I have. So that makes 2 of us.
    Holy ****. In all this time, I never actually looked at styles label thingie to the left :eusa_doh:

    So what exactly constitute "Five Animal". Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, and Dragon... what exactly does that and each mean, from a technical point of view?
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 12:00pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those are the 5 animals comonly referred to as 5 animal. Each has their own particular way of moving. Each has their own emphasis.

    I will just scratch the surface for you to give you a general idea.

    Tiger is powerful and very direct. Crane is expansive, has lots of kicks. Leopard is very fast, and has an interesting way of striking. It will strike a striking arm so that it will aid in the muscle contracture to bring the arm back faster for another strike. Snake requires a very supple waist, has an intersting blocking and striking pattern and generally focuses on striking soft areas on the body. Dragon is also serpentine, commonly uses a claw hand. Each "animal" has its own designated hand positions used in striking.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 12:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    Those are the 5 animals comonly referred to as 5 animal. Each has their own particular way of moving. Each has their own emphasis.

    I will just scratch the surface for you to give you a general idea.

    Tiger is powerful and very direct. Crane is expansive, has lots of kicks. Leopard is very fast, and has an interesting way of striking. It will strike a striking arm so that it will aid in the muscle contracture to bring the arm back faster for another strike. Snake requires a very supple waist, has an intersting blocking and striking pattern and generally focuses on striking soft areas on the body. Dragon is also serpentine, commonly uses a claw hand. Each "animal" has its own designated hand positions used in striking.
    Sweet, sweet, sweet. That's more or less what I was trying to look for. All this info is starting to make sense now :)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 5:44pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've heard of a kung fu style in the UK (via Hong Kong) explicitly called '5 ancestor fist'
    (wuzuquan I think was the mandarin pronounciation). A huge guy called Roy Pinks who did some full contact competition (who passed away recently) taught it.

    As to the more generic references to '5 ancestors' these pepper the lineage/creation myths of every 'southern shaolin'-derived style I've ever read about (including Wing Chun, Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut).
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  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 7:04pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elnyka
    Bah! Your chi-blasts are weak and you don't prance on one leg...

    Thanks pple for your responses. Besides the history, I was also interested in knowing what makes Choy Li Fut the style it is. I'm not looking to this style vs this other style kind of thing, but an overall description of it, from a technical and impartial point of view...

    Another question for teh Omega... based on your experience with 5 ancestors, do you see a commonality (or lack thereof) between the style(s) you have trained and Choy Li Fut?
    Truthfully speaking, I have never seen anything I've done even remotely look like anything in Choy Li fut. Choy Li Fut is a hard hitting style but I think their movements are gay. Arm swinging tree huggers, I swear.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 7:07pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    Those are the 5 animals comonly referred to as 5 animal. Each has their own particular way of moving. Each has their own emphasis.

    I will just scratch the surface for you to give you a general idea.

    Tiger is powerful and very direct. Crane is expansive, has lots of kicks. Leopard is very fast, and has an interesting way of striking. It will strike a striking arm so that it will aid in the muscle contracture to bring the arm back faster for another strike. Snake requires a very supple waist, has an intersting blocking and striking pattern and generally focuses on striking soft areas on the body. Dragon is also serpentine, commonly uses a claw hand. Each "animal" has its own designated hand positions used in striking.
    The huge differance between what I learned and what is most commonly accepted is that we don't have snake we have Eagle which is supposed to be a stronger version of Crane. Each animal was commonly named for it's fist or claw, except dragon and crane. So it was Leopard's fist, Eagle's Claw, Tiger's Claw, Dragon, and Crane.
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