Five Ancestor Kung-Fu - what is????

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 5:52pm

Ok, here is the question.

There is a neat school (class schedule here) near my job that provides training for, among other things, San-Shou. I've asked around and got good props about it (including a positive comment from teh Omega). So this school is one possibility for me...

But I'm curious. I like to know the history of a given martial arts, specially if it's from a serious school such as this one. As I read about the school, I see that the main art being taught is Choy Lay Fut. As I read more about the art, I see that it is a "Five Animal/Five Form" southern Chinese MA. Tiger, Crane, Leopard, Snake, and Dragon... what exactly does that mean? Is there a relation to Five Ancestors?

Information is spread out, scant, and thin, so I though this may be a good topic for a thread where pple in the know can pitch in...

... so those in the know, bring it on :read:

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 6:00pm

Might be wrong but I think Choy Lee Fut and "Five ancestor fist" kung fu are seperate arts. Choy Lee Fut is credited ro one guy who had three masters and he named his art after them (Choy, Lee and "fut").

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 6:08pm

DerAuslander spoke briefly about it here and here. That's the best I can do, I"m afraid.

**Mr. Mantis** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 6:53pm

I really don't know the history either, just because I've never had to sit through any history lessons, too busy learning the style.

Plus, anytime you talk about CMA history, you never know what parts are correct and what is myth. You have to cross reference and second guess everything.

That said, I can tell you that it is Shaolin based. 5 family is not necessarily 5 animal. As the story goes, 5 animal is a style that came out of what is sometimes called the "Great Consolidation" maybe it happened in the 15 or 1600's Three guys (Li, Yuan, Fung) all went out and gathered all the knowledge they could by fighting across China, then they went back to Shaolin to teach the monks, and restore Shaolin with the 5 Animal system that supposedly consisted of 170 techniques.

Then, down the lineafter the Shaolin temple in Henan was destroyed by the Ching, it's said 5 ancestors escaped, and that what they knew was somehow the basis of the knowledge that comprised 5 Ancestors.

Then down in say 1890's or something, you had 5 monks in the South (Hung, Li, Choy, Tao, Mok) whose combined systems were 5 family, maybe? I don't really know for sure. Choy Li Fut is supposedly a combination of three of those styles.

All looking back to Shaolin roots in the long run.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 7:01pm

Interesting, interesting. DAYoung, I saw those posts by DerAus, and that was one of my main motivations for starting the thread - apart from the fact that I like that San Shou/Choy Lay Fut school.

Mantis, many thanks. That's a good starting point for me to do further research. As you said, a lot of what I found over the net is partly history, partly myth, and it's kind of hard to put all that together in a coherent, bs-free manner w/o knowing the background of it...

... looking forward for more info :P

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 7:30pm

I just went to the effort of walking about 14 feet to my MA bookshelf, and was reminded of how little I have on CMA. Nonetheless, I did pick up the awful The Martial Arts by Lewis, which has these dodgy things to say:

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 7:31pm

Incidentally, my May Black Belt just arrived - William Cheung on the front cover on Wing Chung pressure points!

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 10:43pm

Ok, I've read the "history" section in a few kung fu books so, just going by my general knowledge on kung fu styles, this may or may not be accurate.

Mantis contradicts what I've read on a couple of counts here, particularly re Choy Li Fut (/Choy Lee fut/Choy Lai Fut etc etc) being decended from three of the "5 monks" of Shaolin. Choy Lee Fut - Lee is generally said, rather specifically, not to be the same Lee as in the "lee" as the big five. But Hung Gar is apparently one of the five styles going into the Choy Lee Fut pot - possibly via "Fut" which means monk and was the nickname of one of his masters. The monk was apparently "the Greengrass Monk" but that story is dejunked by some notable CLF masters as only a legend.

Anyway, on a seperate point, there is a completely seperate style calling itself "5 ancestor fist" (Ngo Cho Kun) which is apparently a mix of Funiken White Crane (Pe Ho? ) and four other styles.

**Shaolinz** · Posted On: 4/25/2006 11:21pm

Originally Posted by DAYoung

Incidentally, my May Black Belt just arrived - William Cheung on the front cover on Wing Chung pressure points!

Read the MT article about the Americans getting threatened with coke bottles...

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 4/26/2006 1:33am

Yeah, gee, maybe you should find somebody on the board that actually has done 5 ancestors. 5 Ancestor Kung-fu has spawned several different styles most notably southern systems. Many styles claim to be linked to the 5 ancestors. Sometimes translated as the 5 houses of striking when refering to the techniques alone. 5 is a very key thing and it's not a direct style per se as much as a group of styles. Choy Li Fut, Hung-gar, Lohan, Fut Gar, and Eagle Claw all lay claim to the lineage. Hung-gar specifically likes to lay direct credit for the spawning of kempo lineage in American culture.

But what do I know I'm just a MMA fighter. I wouldn't look into the history all that much except to say that most teachers could not lay claim to the lineage without having strong fighting background. Usually eluding to connections with the triads.