Posted On:4/29/2006 7:17pm
Style: AMAI TKD
To avoid very lenghty posts, I am going to keep it short. Or try to at least :)
You talk about psycological and personal biases, the faults of some institutions, people's "stupid assumptions", etc.
Then you talk about how it is nobody's fault. It is just a process, "(by) assigning blame, we ourselves come to a false settlement of the situation and assume that the event is over to our own satisfaction. By blaming somebody we can have a sense of closure and accomplishment internally. This is also a misperception, a bias, and a logical fallacy."
Your entire argument doesn't talk about personal responsibility. Yes, there is a lot of bad information and misinformation out there. Yes, institutions are not always totally honest. Yes, people lie to themselves. Yes it is one big process. But at the end of the day, I make the decision. I choose what I want to believe. I choose what course of action to take. Something Abe Lincoln said in a debate,
"How many legs does a horse have if a tail was called a leg?"
Some in the crowd said "Five"
Abe Lincoln said, "Four, calling a tail a leg doesn't make it true."
What I am saying is that people and institutions can tell me what they want, it is up to me to gather information, examine and process it, and come to a "proper" conclusion. Assigning blame is not a logical fallacy and it has nothing to do with a sense of closure. Simply accepting the process or that things just happen is just plain moronic. The victim should've gathered more information and really thought it through and our institutions need to find a way to better handle violent situations. Saying otherwise seems like just another way to free ourselves from any personal responsiblity and rob ourselves of a way to make things better.
Last edited by Shu2jack; 4/29/2006 7:20pm at .
Posted On:4/30/2006 9:26pm
Style: Budo Taijutsu
I have to disagree with your total assessment of my argument. I would have to say that there is enough blame to go around. However, I will still maintain that if a person does not have the information necessary and is told certain things (qutesionable things) by the institutions that society has set up to handle these types of situations, then there is a problem and the individual is at a severe disadvantage.
I once helped a student in one of my sociology classes that I was teaching who was being stalked by a fellow student. I won't get into it, but the way the cops treated her was completely insane. I had witnessed his behavior, and the cops totally ignored it all. Now, because she had another person to bounce things off of, namely me, we went another route and got the matter handled. I have seen this stuff first hand and more than once.
I understand the points about personal responsibility, but this presupposes a certain amount of knowledge or pre-existing and mitigating circumstances that a surprising amount of people do not have. Also, if you have ever dealt with severely abused people, their sense of rationality is very different from yours or mine. We can just let darwinian processes have at it, but I think we can do better as a society.
I would really just ask people to read the book. I think you will find it interesting on many levels, even if you don't agree with everything in it (I don't).
Posted On:5/01/2006 12:16am
I will definately check out the book. Fnord325, while I don't agree with you on all points, it is nice to be able to debate a topic on this forum with out any flaming or insults being thrown around. Thank you.
Posted On:5/02/2006 3:58pm
Not a problem. This is a topic that is pretty important to me. I think it is the core of keeping yourself safe and goes way beyond how well you scrap. So, all the poop that usually goes on here has no place.
However, some of the stuff people say on here does make me laugh out loud. It is why I keep coming back.
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