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  1. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    ...is THE PENETRATOR

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2006 5:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    De Becker condemns instilling false confidence

    I'm reading a book on predicting violent behavior through psychology. One chapter deals with spousal abuse. It specifically condemns the practice of everyone getting restraining orders without fully considering their situation. This is because the restraining order is a piece of paper which means something legally but which isn't going to physically make a difference in the five minutes that your ex might decide to come and kill you in retaliation. It boils down, according to the author, to instilling false confidence. The victim gets the restraining order and then imagines that because she carries it in her purse this will magically make the police appear if her ex tries to murder her. But of course the paper by itself is useless in a physical confrontation.

    I decided to post the paragraph where the author states this here because it has a lot to do with the ideas expressed at this site. Something that creates a false sense of safety in a potential victim is actually a tremendous disservice, whether it's a restraining order, or a TKD black belt, which means even less because it's not a legal entity.

    There is a glib response to all this: When men are very violent and dangerous, they are going to kill no matter what, so the TRO [restraining order] can't make things worse. But here's the rub: The TRO does hurt by convincing the woman that she is safe. One prominent family-court judge has said, "Women must realize that this paper won't stop the next fist or the next bullet."
    De Becker, Gavin. "The Gift of Fear". Little, Brown, and Company, 1998.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  2. arjay is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 7:14am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Stuck in the 80's

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have this book, and highly recommend it to everybody. The basic premise is that there is a difference between "real" fear and "imagined" or "perceived" fear. In "real" fear, your body takes over from your mind, it becomes a sort of automaton that instinctively will do anything live. Sort of like Psycho-Cybernetics pumped up on adrenaline. That's probably a very bad way to state it, but like I said, the book is a good read and so is his follow up, "Protecting The Gift". This one concentrates on how to protect your children. Has some very disturbing material in it as well.
  3. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 12:30pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look into information on the Sympathetic Nervous System. You'll get a good idea of just what it is that a genuine fear state does to your awareness.
  4. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 4:39pm


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Gift of Fear is a very good book, and I do think that anyone who is either teaching or studying SD needs to read it. Unfortunately if you don't read it a couple of times it is easy to come away with some inaccurate ideas from it.

    The book is not about the fight or flight reaction, per se. What it is about is trusting your initial reactions in a potentially dangerous situation. Its premise is that the myths and social conditioning surrounding "danger" hinder our chances of recognizing what is right in front of our faces many times. The stereotypical example is the sex fiend in the bushes, when it is more likely that women will be attacked by significant others.

    While it is true that the Sympathetic Nervous System's response to stress can interfere with our awareness, the author would most likely argue that it is our socially conditioned response to the Fight or Flight reaction that is the most damaging and responsible for the confusion and missteps in proctecting ourselves. Our cognitive response to an affective (emotional) process is what puts us in danger. If we responded the way we were biologically programmed to and didn't supress that or second guess it, we would be safer.

    Whereas I don't buy all of his arguments, he has a tendency towards biological reductionism (everything is absolutely genetic, for example), I do feel his basic premise is important - pay attention to the real danger, don't get stuck on the BS danger that society tells you about. Listen to what your perceptions are really telling you and look past the artificial filters.

    One of the most important things he tells his readers is to stop watching TV news. The television is perhaps the biggest problem with false fears and false senses of security in the world, particularly in the US.
  5. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 5:23pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I used to work in a courthouse processing restraining orders. So when I read his book, agreed with Gavin. A restraining order will only affect someone who feel he has something to lose by violating it. Its not an automatic step, though it is useful for convincing cops to actually intervene in "domestic situations" which many do not like to do.

    I also agree that by far it is better to simply arrest the guy for domestic violance because it shifts his anger from his victim to the court system.
  6. Shu2jack is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 6:38pm


     Style: AMAI TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what the book is saying is that people are basically morons? I think some one thinking that a restraining order automatically protects them from harm has more to do with the failure of people to think things through and reason logically. I think it has less to do with convincing people they are safe and more to do with people simply not realizing what a restraining order is.

    "OH NOES! My abusive ex-boyfriend!"

    "Restraining Order! I choose you!"

    "Go get him restraining order! Ummm....."
  7. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 7:07pm

    hall of famestaff
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its not stupid, most people have unrealistic expectations for the legal system. Part of the problem is that if you're a law abiding victim, you don't have a frame of referrence to realize that there are some people who do not care about court imposed sanctions.
  8. Shu2jack is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 7:19pm


     Style: AMAI TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its not stupid, most people have unrealistic expectations for the legal system. Part of the problem is that if you're a law abiding victim, you don't have a frame of referrence to realize that there are some people who do not care about court imposed sanctions.
    I understand what you are saying, but I would think most people would learn about this type of thing, on a smaller scale, at home.

    Brother punches me. I tell mom. Mom tells brother to stop or else he is in big trobule. Later when mom is not around, brother punches me again- often because I "tattle-telled".

    People often speed, breaking the law, regardless of what the cops or the law says because the authorities are not around. If someone gives me the finger because they don't like my driving, some would tell that person to screw off.

    I just fail to see one think that restraining orders magically make everything ok.
    Last edited by Shu2jack; 4/26/2006 7:22pm at .
  9. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 8:27pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the book Gavin implies that cops use the restraining order as a general response. So if someone is told by the police, "go get a restraining order" they tend to think its more effective then it actually is.
  10. Shu2jack is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2006 8:46pm


     Style: AMAI TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So people are getting legal documents without actually fully understanding what they are or how they work? Doesn't sound very smart to me.

    So could we say that people are being filled with false confidence because of their stupidity and inability to think things through? Wouldn't this make people's ignorance, among other things, to blame for their false confidence rather than restraining orders?

    Good thing I have my ATA 3rd dan. I know that restraining orders won't protect me, so it is a comfort to know that my black belt - along with "self-defense" training - will keep me safe from all harm. :laughing7
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