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  1. Antifa is offline
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    Sin Dios! Sin amos!

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2006 11:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    I went to a lot of trouble and got crossed-eyed answering your questions.Can you answer mines on the 3rd page.
    Working on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    Also is this Jesse person the man from Philly you mentioned earlier in this thread?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    Again also Samuel Browning post this question to you.

    Here is his question.
    "So do you have any news accounts that demonstrate "ethnic cleansing" in NO?"Sam Browning.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...8942&postcount
    Answered it from the roomates account by mistake. Sorry for the confusion. and the crossed eyes
  2. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/30/2006 11:42pm

    hall of famestaff
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmetShamash
    The Gretna bussiness seems to be a good start. And you validated it yourself.

    The lack of will/ out right impediments to rebuilding the 9th ward qualify IMHO.

    The English press is pretty clear on it : http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...577324,00.html

    Canadian NGOs:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...&articleId=914

    FEMA interfering with voting:

    http://www.motherjones.com/commentar..._disaster.html

    From the AP: Study: New Orleans could lose 80 percent of black population

    or just run the google search I did and pick the sources you like.

    Of course... confiscatiing guns faciliates this sort of thing.

    Get back to me with what you think,
    Antifa
    I think you have a good case for racism, but ethnic cleansing as is most commonly used, refers to the murder or deportation of people using force or threat of force. Here the deportation was an act of nature. So I don't think NO fits the definition of this term.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing for examples.

    Yes, I know, your buddy saw a burn on a levee, and I've previously stated that unless he comes forward using his real name, and demonstrates advanced knowledge of demolitions, his account amounts to zilch.
  3. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/30/2006 11:53pm

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    http://www.alternet.org/katrina/30044/

    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    I read this back in Januray.it's interesting.It's kind of a long read but I copied pasted this interesting part.A black man from a hard hit area of NewOrleans calling a live air radio show to ask where was government aid.Immediately after a woman froma affluent are an of New-Orleans calls in to ask the same question.

    What do you make of that?
    I'm going to cherry pick comments from the same page if you dont mind.

    HURRICANE FRANCES HITS FLORIDA:
    FROM THE ATLANTIC MAGAZINE November, 2005
    “Imagine if, in advance of Hurricane Katrina, thousands of trucks had been waiting with water and ice and medicine and other supplies. Imagine if 4,000 National Guardsmen and an equal number of emergency aid workers from around the country had been moved into place, and five million meals had been ready to serve. Imagine if scores of mobile satellite-communications stations had been prepared to move in instantly, ensuring that rescuers could talk to one another. Imagine if all this had been managed by a federal-and-state task force that not only directed the government response but also helped coordinate the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and other outside groups.
    This requires no imagination: it is exactly what the Bush administration did a year ago when Florida braced for Hurricane Frances. It was two months before the presidential election, and Florida's twenty-seven electoral votes were hanging in the balance. It is hardly surprising that Washington ensured the success of "the largest response to a natural disaster we've ever had in this country." The president himself passed out water bottles to Floridians driven from their homes.”


    contrast? ----

    okay... Firsthand eyewitness report of the Gretna incident:

    http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/4683.php

    enjoy
  4. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 12:03am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    I think you have a good case for racism, but ethnic cleansing as is most commonly used, refers to the murder or deportation of people using force or threat of force. Here the deportation was an act of nature. So I don't think NO fits the definition of this term.
    I'll be nice since you conceeded a point.

    Sir. I disagree with you in the strongest terms.

    I think that threat of force, selective distribution of resources, deprivation of franchise, use of mercenary troops, selective condemnation of housing by district, lack of political will to rebuild black neighboorhoods and a desire to move the black folks out constitute ethinic cleansing when taken as a whole.

    We might be quibbling over definitions but to me the net effect is the same. On an insitutional level, a natural catastrophy was used to dispossess a community and disperse it. Everyone was deported by Katrina except the Black Folks that were left to die. There is political will to rebuild parts of NOLA but note th Black parts of NOLA. Thats ethinic cleansing.

    A comunity was disperse and not permitted to return. Where they were permitted to return every possible institutional roadblock was placed int their way. Again I say this constitutes ethinc cleansing.

    I think you might be having a slight case of it cant happen here
  5. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 12:09am

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON

    You forgot NINJAS!!! What's wrong with you?
    I'm part of the conspriacy? Dammit I didnt get the memo!

    or the fat check!

    So... disapointed
  6. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 12:45am

    hall of famestaff
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antifa
    I'll be nice since you conceeded a point.

    Sir. I disagree with you in the strongest terms.

    I think that threat of force, selective distribution of resources, deprivation of franchise, use of mercenary troops, selective condemnation of housing by district, lack of political will to rebuild black neighboorhoods and a desire to move the black folks out constitute ethinic cleansing when taken as a whole.

    We might be quibbling over definitions but to me the net effect is the same. On an insitutional level, a natural catastrophy was used to dispossess a community and disperse it. Everyone was deported by Katrina except the Black Folks that were left to die. There is political will to rebuild parts of NOLA but note th Black parts of NOLA. Thats ethinic cleansing.

    A comunity was disperse and not permitted to return. Where they were permitted to return every possible institutional roadblock was placed int their way. Again I say this constitutes ethinc cleansing.

    I think you might be having a slight case of it cant happen here
    Nope, its a variation of racism, that isn't close to what is happening in Darfor or what happened in Bosnia or Rwanda. When you see people killed by government, or paramilitary forces sanctioned by the government you have ethnic cleansing. When you see people deported under the threat of violance because of their ethnic group you have EC. Remember the Gretna police were trying to keep african-Americans inside New Orleans which was racism, not deportation.

    You are cheapening the words ethnic cleansing.
  7. Antifa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 8:30am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    Nope, its a variation of racism, that isn't close to what is happening in Darfor or what happened in Bosnia or Rwanda. When you see people killed by government, or paramilitary forces sanctioned by the government you have ethnic cleansing. When you see people deported under the threat of violance because of their ethnic group you have EC. Remember the Gretna police were trying to keep african-Americans inside New Orleans which was racism, not deportation.

    You are cheapening the words ethnic cleansing.
    Still Disagree. Just because massive exterminative force was not used does not make a difference to me. The threat of that force was there. And the justifications for using it were being created.

    Just because the "cleansed" were willing to leave, and it was mostly beauracarcy that prevents/prevented them from returning, does not make it not ethinic cleansing.

    What if people had decided en mass, that they wished to return to their homes despite the fact that they are condemed, and attempt to rebuild their community?

    would violence and repression have been used to prevent this?

    This sort of goes along with one of my favorite sayings:

    "Fascism doesnt start in concentration camps, it ends there".

    But again its a good first step for you to conceed massive racism on the part of governement industry and media during this crisis. Gives me hope that people can be reached on the issues

    Antifa
  8. CanucKyokushin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 9:28am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antifa
    http://www.alternet.org/katrina/30044/
    I'm going to cherry pick comments from the same page if you dont mind.

    HURRICANE FRANCES HITS FLORIDA:
    FROM THE ATLANTIC MAGAZINE November, 2005
    “Imagine if, in advance of Hurricane Katrina, thousands of trucks had been waiting with water and ice and medicine and other supplies. Imagine if 4,000 National Guardsmen and an equal number of emergency aid workers from around the country had been moved into place, and five million meals had been ready to serve. Imagine if scores of mobile satellite-communications stations had been prepared to move in instantly, ensuring that rescuers could talk to one another. Imagine if all this had been managed by a federal-and-state task force that not only directed the government response but also helped coordinate the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and other outside groups.
    This requires no imagination: it is exactly what the Bush administration did a year ago when Florida braced for Hurricane Frances. It was two months before the presidential election, and Florida's twenty-seven electoral votes were hanging in the balance. It is hardly surprising that Washington ensured the success of "the largest response to a natural disaster we've ever had in this country." The president himself passed out water bottles to Floridians driven from their homes.”

    contrast? ----

    okay... Firsthand eyewitness report of the Gretna incident:
    enjoy
    Yep!This is called a lot of things:Good PR work,strealing votes.

    Ha!But what you forget was that the one difference between Florida and the City of New Orleans was that Law Enforcement in NO had effectively collapsed and the city was flooded.While In Florida FEMA,National Guard and the Red Cross could move about the counties freely.

    But there's more to the disaster than you wish to consider.FEMA just was not led by a competent senior staff.This quote from one US senator about the organization "FEMA is discredited, demoralized, and dysfunctional. It is beyond repair. Just tweaking the organizational chart will not solve the problem" ..............."Katrina has taught us all the bitter lessons of the cost of failing to build and maintain a true national emergency planning and response system,"

    What happened in NO was a rare case of municipal and social chaos brought about by a major natural disater.It happened in San Francisco in 1911 and it happened again in New Orleans.

    The only good things to come out of all this is that the US will have a better emergency response org in the near future that will be better suited and led that FEMA ever was.Humans ,while inteligent, tend to learn lessons the hard way.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 9:33am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    In every great event in history there are always a crowd of people who don't wont to take things at face value.The sinking of the Lusitania,the attack on Pearl-harbor,the assassination of John F Kennedy.That crowd will find any drescrepency to validate their belief in a all encompassing conspiracy.Afterall.How can a great man such as JFk be killed by a born loser with a grudge against the world.But when you add the belief of people working in the shadows.Than you are on a totally different plane of reality.Like Antifa.
    Well conspiracy theories work because, every once in a great while, one turns out true.
  10. CanucKyokushin is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2006 9:55am

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Well conspiracy theories work because, every once in a great while, one turns out true.
    Of these conspiracys,which one turned out to be true:

    1_Winston Churhill new about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor.

    2_That the assassination of JFK was the alliance of Cuban exiles working in cahoots with Castro to kill off Kennedy while hiring a Dallas night club owner to pay Oswald to kill the president.

    3_The reason the germans sunk the Lusitania was that the ship was suspected of carrying ammunitions for the war effort.

    4_White supremacist working with middlemen in FEMA the Red Cross and the New Orleans municipal goverment (Mayor's office) to eredicate the poor population (mostly black people) of New Orleans because rich whites retirees wish to move into an area that's already at high risk of Hurricanes and flooding.

    Now.Which of these conspiracy theory's look to you to be plausible in some way.
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