That's it. I'm out of the Bujinkan.

**mad_mally** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 4:32am

I totally agree with virus, and I hear where he's coming from. I too am having the same revelation in my system of fighting. My style is a mix of Goju Karate and Jujitsu, and I have to say that the Karate is good, but the jujitsu sucks hard. Our Karate sparing is live and similar to Kyokushin type fighting (we don't wear pads so we limit kicks to the body and if we throw to the head we try not to make contact), however we we can't use our jujitsu when we spar. In fact I' don't even know how to use the jujitsu in a real fight, all of our jujitsu moves are done in self defense techniques where the uke leaves his hand or arm out so you can perform the technique. Don't get me wrong I love the stand-up fighting, and it's by far the best thing that we do, but it just seems to me that were just a hard karate style that added in some traditional jujitsu for kicks. Needless to say I've started teaching myself BJJ and Judo with some of the students that come to class early, someone's got to stop the madness.

**TheSparrow** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 6:02am

You're a 3rd Dan in an art and you gave it up. That takes some doing. Respect.

IME, a lot of people who hit those high ranks will forever remain stuck in the art.

**Virus** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 6:21am

Originally Posted by TheSparrow

You're a 3rd Dan in an art and you gave it up. That takes some doing. Respect.

IME, a lot of people who hit those high ranks will forever remain stuck in the art.

Yeah, I'm going to miss wearing that black belt. I'm hanging it up for the white. Maybe in a decade or so I can dust that thing off and wear it again.

I knew a guy who went to Japan, got his 5th Dan, then quit the bujinkan becuase it didn't have enough kata. WTF!!!

**wagamichi** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 7:28am

Originally Posted by Virus

Yeah, I'm going to miss wearing that black belt. I'm hanging it up for the white. Maybe in a decade or so I can dust that thing off and wear it again.

I knew a guy who went to Japan, got his 5th Dan, then quit the bujinkan becuase it didn't have enough kata. WTF!!!

A buddy of mine on the force was with the bujinkan. he trained under shidoshi robert johnson, That does not mean **** to me but he is supposed to be a good ninja. At any rate, he was with hinm for years and about 6 months ago said the same thing you did. He has switched to some other "new" Taijitsu? system started by some Hatsumi judas that left the bujinkan. I can't remeber his name. His org teaches the Ryu minus the ninja stuf. At any rate, they get realy rough and go freestyle with the stuff. My bud said it is worlds away from the LARPING he did at the bujinkan dojo. Mabey you could look into that.

To be fair, I dont know much other than what Jim told me about Bujinkan, But i have seen him thump some scroatbags preaty hard on the streets. He had a Shorin-Ryu background as well, But he did a (nine demom touches cloud some bla bla bla)_ arm throw on a guy one night and tore the rotator cuff in a bad way.

**Goju - Joe** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 8:24am

Originally Posted by mad_mally

I totally agree with virus, and I hear where he's coming from. I too am having the same revelation in my system of fighting. My style is a mix of Goju Karate and Jujitsu, and I have to say that the Karate is good, but the jujitsu sucks hard. Our Karate sparing is live and similar to Kyokushin type fighting (we don't wear pads so we limit kicks to the body and if we throw to the head we try not to make contact), however we we can't use our jujitsu when we spar. In fact I' don't even know how to use the jujitsu in a real fight, all of our jujitsu moves are done in self defense techniques where the uke leaves his hand or arm out so you can perform the technique. Don't get me wrong I love the stand-up fighting, and it's by far the best thing that we do, but it just seems to me that were just a hard karate style that added in some traditional jujitsu for kicks. Needless to say I've started teaching myself BJJ and Judo with some of the students that come to class early, someone's got to stop the madness.

Come to Toronto and you can use it all together with gojujitsu. Learn how to use a punch to the face to set up a single leg take down, get mount position and work an arm bar aginst totaly resistent people. Grappling only is on Wednessday night and Sport JJ sparring (Kicks, punches take downs and submissions) is on Friday.

GoJu and grappling work well together.

**Askari** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 8:29am

Originally Posted by Virus

Yeah, I'm going to miss wearing that black belt. I'm hanging it up for the white. Maybe in a decade or so I can dust that thing off and wear it again.

I hear you, but putting on the white belt is so liberating. I predict that you will get to the point where you wont want to wear any coloured belts at all.

**Virus** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 8:45am

Originally Posted by wagamichi

A buddy of mine on the force was with the bujinkan. he trained under shidoshi robert johnson, That does not mean **** to me but he is supposed to be a good ninja. At any rate, he was with hinm for years and about 6 months ago said the same thing you did. He has switched to some other "new" Taijitsu? system started by some Hatsumi judas that left the bujinkan. I can't remeber his name. His org teaches the Ryu minus the ninja stuf. At any rate, they get realy rough and go freestyle with the stuff. My bud said it is worlds away from the LARPING he did at the bujinkan dojo. Mabey you could look into that.

To be fair, I dont know much other than what Jim told me about Bujinkan, But i have seen him thump some scroatbags preaty hard on the streets. He had a Shorin-Ryu background as well, But he did a (nine demom touches cloud some bla bla bla)_ arm throw on a guy one night and tore the rotator cuff in a bad way.

I don't know who he is training with but there's nothing like that in Sydney. Most of the time when people split off from the Bujinkan and do their own thing the result is even worse. The exception would be the BKR which Sean Askew created, but they are on good terms and affiliated with Hatsumi. I think he is Bujinkan with Kosen Judo added and he seems to be cosy with a few good BJJ guys as well. Him, Shinbushi and maybe Ralph Severe would proabably be the best guys to train with that I know of. In Sydney I am not aware of anyone using sparring and randori as a regular feature of training.

**wagamichi** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 10:03am

Originally Posted by Virus

I don't know who he is training with but there's nothing like that in Sydney. Most of the time when people split off from the Bujinkan and do their own thing the result is even worse. The exception would be the BKR which Sean Askew created, but they are on good terms and affiliated with Hatsumi. I think he is Bujinkan with Kosen Judo added and he seems to be cosy with a few good BJJ guys as well. Him, Shinbushi and maybe Ralph Severe would proabably be the best guys to train with that I know of. In Sydney I am not aware of anyone using sparring and randori as a regular feature of training.

The guy is japanse, was supposed to follow Hatsumi or was in line. It is not nagato, It starts with an "M" I will find out and let you know. I saw some training videos of this guy and he hits hard and throws hard. He came out and said he will only teach 4 of the samurai ryu because the rest are silly.

**CanucKyokushin** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 10:18am

Respect to you for being able to hang-up your belt.A lot of people from styles who don't know anything about the time ,blood ,sweat and tears that goes into getting your belt won't ever understand.For someone to say that they will miss their belt on this site is refreshing.My hat off to you.

Have you made a choice of a new style already?

**Virus** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 10:32am

Originally Posted by wagamichi

The guy is japanse, was supposed to follow Hatsumi or was in line. It is not nagato, It starts with an "M" I will find out and let you know. I saw some training videos of this guy and he hits hard and throws hard. He came out and said he will only teach 4 of the samurai ryu because the rest are silly.

Fumio Manaka? He started the Jinenkan. http://www.jinenkan.com/Default.asp

Hitting hard is not the issue, I've been hit and thrown hard in the Bujinkan more than I care to remember, the thing is people hit non-resisting, non-mobile partners. Some of the instructors even boast about how "hard" thier training is, becuase they smack people during techniques really hard, bare knuckle, in places that hurt. The thing is, the other guy has to take it, if hitting back was an option it would be a different story. A classes is the dakentaijutsu techniques of striking the attacking arm or leg, we woulld do these big lunge punches, and leave our arms out for the other guy to hit. The instructors were very accurate and hit sensitive areas such as the humourus which would make your arm go numb and tingle. It's very painful. Does it work on a real punch? We never tried, but I'd guess no. Not without Ashida Kim's bullet time skills at least. That's what they do, and that's what they are good at, hitting stationary outstreched arms.