That's it. I'm out of the Bujinkan.

**MONGO** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 1:32am

For me it started out with serious research in regard to martial arts. I was lucky enough to have had enough people around me that allowed me to train the techniques in an 'alive' manner as I was the one to introduce sparring in my original dojo some 7 years prior to my leaving.

We had focus mitt training and I even got people to do PT so there was no problems in that regard. My problems happened when I saw too many of my peers and senior dan ranks that decided to make Martial Arts more than it really was. It seemed like everyone was selling enlightenment on the side. My teacher went off the deep end and all but the young guys ditched my classes because of one excuse or another.

The change also happened in Japan.
When I first went to class in Japan, before the 15th dan bullshit and before anyone was a 10th in the US (I think). Those days, techniques and training was conducted with more attention to detail and more varied and realistic training scenarios. I had met guys that trained and actually fought Shooto here in Japan, and trained in the BJK.

This change in the last 5 years, there are a bunch of guys that walk around with large ranks that can't fight and have appeared to have little to no clue about actual training. I realized that I was serious, but the people that I was associated with were not. I had received stupid comments from some of the senior people that joked about my serious approach to learning martial arts.

I decided that the Bujinkan was not a place for someone who actually wanted to learn about fighting. Everyone says, "oh, the shihan have the skills", the "shihan are the fighters". They are part of the problem, even the Japanese have transitioned to LARPing about their own culture.

I find that I fit my current Judo dojo much more than I ever fit in anywhere else. The training is full contact, the training is hard, no excuses, everyday is a workout and everyone wants to be there.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 2:27am

So much personal growth on this website.

We should form a support group and have long cries.

**bshovan** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 2:38am

I was fortunate to have had instructors who made training a real educational process, no "BS". I was brought up this way and never thought twice about how much my training differed from many others, I was trained to do so. The more I train and learn, the more I know how much I don't know., learning everyday. I refrain from the negative and pursue the positive. It is what it is. Life is so great when I know each moment of time is another learning experience.

Bill Shovan

**Virus** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 2:43am

I hear you Mongo. Thanks for posting, I was always curious as to your time in the bujinkan. One of the instructors in the area come back from Japan recently and said it's all gone downhill in Japan. He said the training is soft and weak there now. It's funny because I used to hear people say "Go to Japan, it's all different there" (ie; t3h r3al) but even in Japan they don't train in an alive manner. There are 15th dans than travel to Japan then just follow Hatsumi around and talk when they turn up to training. I hate the fucking hero-worship of Hatsumi that goes on. I have a lot of respect for the guy, but the sun doesn't shine out of his ass. Some people believe everything he says and they follow him around licking his ass.

There are definalty people around that bring thier own spiritual bullshit into thier dojos. Just in my area I can think of a guy who runs "warriorship" stuff and they strip down naked and get into a sweat lodge together after training. I wish I was joking. Even some of the more generally level headed guys make out like they are discovering the secrets of the univeerse by training in bujinkan. Just take a look at kutarki.org for evidence. Those who do other martial arts are not going to achieve the enlightenment that you will get by studying thier particular branches of Japanese Jujitsu. I mean, look at this **** from kutarki.org:

I was reading some of the quotes and this one caught my attention.

"You need to move naturally in order to defeat bad people." -Hatsumi

I would like to gain insight from the seniors and elders about this. It has stuck in my mind since I read it. Thanks.

His answer:

"One way I see it has to do with flowing with the natural order of things. "Bad people" will try to disrupt this natural flow. But the warrior who moves with nature will have the advantage of nature. The enemy will feel as if he is fighting nature itself."

I mean, **** off. What "flow" of natural order? It doesn't mean anything. Hatsumi says vague **** that means nothing, you just read anything you want into it. It's not hard to do, I could make up stuff like that myself if I wanted to. He sometimes says some good stuff, stuff I agree with and live by, but most of it is waffle that people think is a secret of the universe.

If it hasn't already it's going to become excatly like aikido.

**MONGO** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 3:13am

Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

So much personal growth on this website.

We should form a support group and have long cries.

I'm crying now, will you hold me?

**Mr. Jones** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 3:34am

This is off subject but how do you respond to people who say, we may suck but the people in Japan and Korea are hardcore? I thought about this when Virus was talking about what someone said

"Go to Japan, it's all different there" (ie; t3h r3al) but even in Japan they don't train in an alive manner.

**Virus** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 3:34am

Originally Posted by MONGO

I'm crying now, will you hold me?

Ninjas Anonymous.

**Virus** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 3:51am

Originally Posted by Mr. Jones

This is off subject but how do you respond to people who say, we may suck but the people in Japan and Korea are hardcore? I thought about this when Virus was talking about what someone said

Well it's a common excuse by people who train in **** to salvage their art. Firstly, if an art is effective you shouldn't have to go to Japan or Korea to find a capable practitioner. In fact, if you do, it means the art is ****. Even if there really is some guy in Japan or Korea that is a hard as nails, the rest of the practitioners in the world suck. That's hardly a glowing review for a martial art. I bet there is at least one guy who does monkey kung fu that is hard, that doesn't mean **** for eveyone else that does it. I hear that about Nagato, he's hard, he kicks ass, he used to do Muay Thai and Judo, he does bujinkan, that means it must be a good art. But that doesn't mean crap for me. It doesn't have **** to do with how I can fight. I think people use that defence becuase they know you aren't going to spend the money, time, effort going to another country to watch an aikido/kungfu/TKD/ninja/_ing_un class. Do you have to go to England to find a good boxer? Japan a good Judoka, "Hey man, the t3h r3al Thai boxers are all in Thailand dude." It's bullshit. If an art is good, most people who do it CAN do it to an acceptable level.

**Hannibal** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 4:07am

I agree Virus.

You made a right decision leaving the Bujinkan. I left the Bujinkan to get into Kyokushin and not long ago I added Judo aswell. And I haven't looked back.

I left the Bujinkan for the same reason you did. No sparring. They don't do any sparring and there is no focus on hard, athletic training. That really began to piss me off.

People always say "Ohh you can do sparring on your own time". That is bull-crap.
I, like most people, work a full time job. I only have so many spare hours in the week to train. So I'm not gonna waste it. WHen I go to clas, I expect to train hard and fight hard untill I'm soaked in sweat.

**DayOfTheJackass** · Posted On: 4/22/2006 4:21am

congrats on having the sense and minerals to do what you think is right. However, the tone and contents of your post (the first post in the thread) suggests you are intimatly aware with the taste of phrost's penis.