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  1. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    An American Hero!

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 2:05pm

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     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not saying that they suck. I just thought that Judo was moving away from practical throws to throws that still work but are harder and more complicated because of Olympic rules. I actually use Judo throws when sparring. Some hip throws and sweeps but they are also found in wrestling.
  2. Da SHreDdA is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 2:28pm


     Style: whatever it takes

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    rampage is a just a street fighter with no experience in anything but eating ****

    fucking hate that guy

    with him its not just a wrestling judo thing but a black vs white thing...cant stand it

    also i wanan say wrestling should stay in high schools and has anyone else noticed alot of fighters over the years dont even have good martial arts backrounds? they learn a move here and there and call it MMA?
    Last edited by Da SHreDdA; 4/19/2006 2:31pm at .
  3. Draven is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 2:56pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Da SHreDdA, please donīt soil my thread by posting in it.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 3:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Not saying that they suck. I just thought that Judo was moving away from practical throws to throws that still work but are harder and more complicated because of Olympic rules. I actually use Judo throws when sparring. Some hip throws and sweeps but they are also found in wrestling.
    No. The statement that judo was or is moving toward more complicated throws is pretty erroneous. Gokyo no Waza was pretty much set up by 1920 - that's 86 years ago. It was until 1982 that additional techniques were added. So it's been almost a quarter of a century that a change or addition has been made to the judo throws accepted (that is, the throws accepted in competitions.)

    Judo is not just about making throws, and any throw will be difficult to execute against a fully resisting judoka hell bent into ippon the **** out of you. To get a grasp of how judo is way more than just throwing, check this list of counters and combinations at judoinfo.com. And for a better understanding of what the combat theory behind judo is, check this article. Although it's a comparison of the underlying combat strategies of BJJ and Judo, it can give an idea of what makes Judo different and/or similar to wrestling.

    Also, use the search function as this topic has been discussed ab nauseum.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Lane is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 6:08pm


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey Punch
    1. No, while they may seem similar, wrestling and judo are quite different.

    2. I'm not so sure what you meant by "strive with each other".

    3. Why pick on someone who can't fight?:icon_roll
    1. Well, please do explain. The seeming similarity is throwing me off, because of the fact that both of them involve the same basic skill set (grappling).

    2. Strive is the verb form of "strife," meaning discord or struggle. To strive with someone is to have discord with them.

    3. Easy money.



    TheForeigner108 -- everyone can still pick on ninja. Ninja are a free for all.
    --
    L.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 8:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahoushi
    1. Well, please do explain. The seeming similarity is throwing me off, because of the fact that both of them involve the same basic skill set (grappling).

    2. Strive is the verb form of "strife," meaning discord or struggle. To strive with someone is to have discord with them.

    3. Easy money.



    TheForeigner108 -- everyone can still pick on ninja. Ninja are a free for all.
    I've never done (greco-roman/freestyle) wrestling, but more or less these are the differences as I understand them:

    - Many locks and chokes are allowed in Judo. Not so in Wrestling.
    - In wrestling, you are supposed to control the fall of your opponent (someone correct me if I'm wrong). In judo, you go for the perfect throw, the ippon, the one that will end a fight by fucking your opponent real good if you were to throw him on solid ground.
    - the goal of wrestling is to keep your opponent pinned, to control him and to take him and keep him where you want (which is not necessarily what he wants:P). This is equivalent to osaekomi waza, the pinning techniques in judo.
    - Submission in wrestling is basically pinning him down like a mail stamp (imagine swatting a fly to the floor). In judo, submission can be from pinning, chocking the **** out of your opponent, or twisting the crap out of him.
    - In judo, you end the fight with a perfect throw, or if not, by submission.

    Having said that, judo owns a lot to wrestling. Check judoinfo.com for a much more detailed explanation of what Judo is or isn't. I'm pretty sure there is or should be a similarly well-constructed and documented site devoted to wrestling.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Monkey Punch is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 9:22pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahoushi
    1. Well, please do explain. The seeming similarity is throwing me off, because of the fact that both of them involve the same basic skill set (grappling).

    2. Strive is the verb form of "strife," meaning discord or struggle. To strive with someone is to have discord with them.

    3. Easy money.



    TheForeigner108 -- everyone can still pick on ninja. Ninja are a free for all.
    1. elnyka gave an explanation that should suffice. I'd just like to add a few things.

    -On a superficial level, Judo and Wrestling are quite similar. In fact, there is some crossover between the takedowns in both styles. For instance, the Judo throw Kata Garuma was adapted directly from wrestling.

    -However, when subjected to deeper scrutiny, the nuances of each style emerge. For instance, in Judo tournaments, there is a 25 second limit on when both players are on the ground. If no one appears to be making a progress, both players are stood up. This limit does not exist in Wrestling, to my limited knowledge. Because of the time limit and the ability to end matches with clean throws, some Judoka prefer to focus on throws and stall when on the ground and wait for the ref to stand them up. This is why some judoka do not develop the skills to maneuver on the ground like some wrestlers.

    -In Wrestling, players lose by getting pinned. This means that a typical Wrestler NEVER, under any circumstances, wants to be on his back. This results in good and bad habits when facing other grappling arts. For instance, to avoid getting on his back a Wrestler would roll onto his belly. Against someone who is using submissions, this is a terrible thing to do. I should note that every wrestler that I've ever rolled with gets rid of this habit quite quickly.

    -There are sub-styles of both Judo and Wrestling. For instance, Kosen Judo focuses on newaza, or ground fighting, while Kodokan Judo is the style that emphasizes throws and has time limits on the ground. Also, Wrestling can be divided into Freestyle, Folkstyle, and Greco-Roman, with each style having its own unique differences. I'll wait for a more informed bullshido member to fill you in on those details.

    2. It was the form of your intransitive verb that threw me off. That, and my grammar skills aren't that sharp before morning coffee. When you said strive with each other, it seemed like you were saying that they strive with each other against a common cause. The meaning would have been clearer if you had said "strive against each other."

    3. My friend, you do make some very good points.
  8. Monkey Punch is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 9:27pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Da SHreDdA
    rampage is a just a street fighter with no experience in anything but eating ****

    fucking hate that guy

    with him its not just a wrestling judo thing but a black vs white thing...cant stand it

    also i wanan say wrestling should stay in high schools and has anyone else noticed alot of fighters over the years dont even have good martial arts backrounds? they learn a move here and there and call it MMA?
    I hope your Mom gets cancer.

    J/K, but you should think what you said through more carefully. I really doubt that this is a "Black/White thing." Also, Ramapge has had some wins against some tough fighters. Chuck Liddlell comes to mind. I'm sure his poor martial ats backgound really contributed to that win.:new_astha
    Last edited by Monkey Punch; 4/19/2006 9:34pm at .
  9. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/19/2006 9:44pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Da SHreDdA
    also i wanan say wrestling should stay in high schools
    1. **** you
    2. The U.S. Olympic wrestling committee called, they said to tell you **** you too.
    3. Your posts are dragging Bullshido's collective IQ downward at an alarming rate.
    4. If you must post, please become smarter .
    Shut the hell up and train.
  10. Lane is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/20/2006 12:33am


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I'm a judoka. I grok judo. I also grok wrestling. I know they're different. I didn't say they were the same; I said they use the same skill set of close-in fighting, fighting on the ground, takedowns, locks, holds, etc. All of that is common to wrestling and judo. Judo is a form of wrestling, is all I'm saying. Saying that wrestling is better than judo is like saying kickboxing is better than boxing. The differences are there, but they're mostly unimportant because there's a level of common skill there that ties them together.

    I mean, there are only so many ways one can grapple; that various cultures around the world should have come up with similar ways of doing it shouldn't be surprising. It should be the norm.
    --
    L.
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