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  1. #21
    SuperGuido's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a Hawaiin-Japanese-German-Italian-English-Irish-Scottish-American, I'm...confused.

  2. #22
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's ok, Satori. You can come out of the closet. We'll still be your friends even if you are gay.

  3. #23
    Yrkoon9's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seems like they were originally headed in the right direction. Then they got kinda fucked up and obsessed with trapping and filipino martial arts. Then grappling became en vogue and they got back on track again.

    Honestly I think a lot of the JKD guys jumped ship for the grappling bandwagon.

    What do I think of trapping? I think it is extremely over rated and that range of combat is so easy to negate with the clinch that it looks to me like a lot of guys wasted a lot of time practicing there. Sure, getting a guy crossed up so you can hit him is neat. Unfortunately its application in real time against a guy throwing bombs is negligible.

    Most of the JKD guys I have met are JKDC guys who seem only mildly obsessed with Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto. They appreciate learning and growing in the martial arts but not a lot of them like to actually fight. They aren't quite the theorists that the WC guys are, but the JKDC guys do more than thier share of intellectualizing about combatives. My sample size is kinda small so shouldn't be used to pidgeon hole all of them.

  4. #24
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    Seems like they were originally headed in the right direction. Then they got kinda fucked up and obsessed with trapping and filipino martial arts. Then grappling became en vogue and they got back on track again.

    Honestly I think a lot of the JKD guys jumped ship for the grappling bandwagon.

    What do I think of trapping? I think it is extremely over rated and that range of combat is so easy to negate with the clinch that it looks to me like a lot of guys wasted a lot of time practicing there. Sure, getting a guy crossed up so you can hit him is neat. Unfortunately its application in real time against a guy throwing bombs is negligible.

    Most of the JKD guys I have met are JKDC guys who seem only mildly obsessed with Bruce Lee and Dan Inosanto. They appreciate learning and growing in the martial arts but not a lot of them like to actually fight. They aren't quite the theorists that the WC guys are, but the JKDC guys do more than thier share of intellectualizing about combatives. My sample size is kinda small so shouldn't be used to pidgeon hole all of them.
    For the life of me, I still don't understand what on Earth trapping is. Sorry to derail the thread, but that question has been haunting me for ages!!!

    *** EDIT ***

    I guess my confusion arises in that a lot of people seem to have a definition of what trapping is or is not. So far, it seems to me that some people see it as a form of standup grappling, but still, it is vague. Grappling is grappling, clinch is clinch, striking is striking. Those are very precise things. Trapping, however... I just dunno.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 4/18/2006 1:40pm at .
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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  5. #25

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    How can you claim to do JKD while at the same time claiming to practice any other martial art? The JKD philosophy is to take everything you learn and just use it if it works. So if you're learning from different "Styles" you're still just learning more to incorporate into JKD.

    I never understood people who say "I do JKD. And Muay Thai. And BJJ." No, dude, you either do JKD and nothing else or you do all those other arts + whatever you are being taught in your JKD "class" which shouldn't be taught in the first place since it's not frickin' JKD!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    How can you claim to do JKD while at the same time claiming to practice any other martial art? The JKD philosophy is to take everything you learn and just use it if it works. So if you're learning from different "Styles" you're still just learning more to incorporate into JKD.

    I never understood people who say "I do JKD. And Muay Thai. And BJJ." No, dude, you either do JKD and nothing else or you do all those other arts + whatever you are being taught in your JKD "class" which shouldn't be taught in the first place since it's not frickin' JKD!
    Remember that JKD is often confused with Jun Fan Gung Fu.

    Just something to keep in mind . . .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

  7. #27
    Yrkoon9's Avatar
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    Well, as we all know people who practice the very *ahem* obscure-in-applicability skills the definition of 'trapping' is going to vary greatly.

    Like the guys who are adamant that thier Pinchan kata breathing technique is actually usefull in the oopah mount escape...the trapping guys are going to start claiming that thier lop sau is great for armlocks, etc.

    The fact is trapping is just trying to get the other guys hands crossed up so you can hit them with impunity. Yeah sure you can trap them so you can clinch better. You can trap them so you can get a better takedown. You can trap them so you can blah blah blah. This is all after the fact **** that flies in the face of the years these JKD guys spent exactly 1.5 feet from each other in a static position trying to play patty cake.

    Yes yes yes. I have seen all the flowing drills. I have seen all the dramatic drum banging knife-sparring-with-trapping.

    To me it looked like Bruce Lee and Inosanto inspired dogma.

  8. #28
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    Well, as we all know people who practice the very *ahem* obscure-in-applicability skills the definition of 'trapping' is going to vary greatly.

    Like the guys who are adamant that thier Pinchan kata breathing technique is actually usefull in the oopah mount escape...the trapping guys are going to start claiming that thier lop sau is great for armlocks, etc.

    The fact is trapping is just trying to get the other guys hands crossed up so you can hit them with impunity. Yeah sure you can trap them so you can clinch better. You can trap them so you can get a better takedown. You can trap them so you can blah blah blah. This is all after the fact **** that flies in the face of the years these JKD guys spent exactly 1.5 feet from each other in a static position trying to play patty cake.

    Yes yes yes. I have seen all the flowing drills. I have seen all the dramatic drum banging knife-sparring-with-trapping.

    To me it looked like Bruce Lee and Inosanto inspired dogma.
    So that's what it is. Finally I see a simple explanation of what the hell trapping is.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  9. #29
    SuperGuido's Avatar
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    As I understand it:

    Trapping is often considered "Striking at extremely close range". The "Trapping" range is in between the clinch and the "Boxing" range...too close to jab, but within range to throw an elbow or a hook.

    Dodging/Slipping/Ducking really isn't an option with an opponent so close, so elaborate methods of "tangling" your opponent's hands are used...with the over-riding idea boiling down to "Cross their arms up, control their crossed arms with one hand, strike with the free hand."

    It looks really cool when you have two guys with really fast hands going at it with "Trapping" techniques...but it seems like the "Grappling" era is quickly destroying the viability of this range.

  10. #30
    SuperGuido's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some visual aids:







    Of course, much of this is quickly countered with this:



    Or even this:


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