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  1. TWCISREAL is offline

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    Nov 2006
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    Posted On:
    11/18/2006 9:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TWC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSparrow
    For those ex _ing _unner's, what crazy delusions did you have when you still practised the style?

    I was a young teen when I started. My parents should never have allowed it. I was easily influenced because it was my first martial art.

    Oh man, I had some horrible delusions. :flipando:

    We had a teacher at school who was ex-army, huge guy, shouted a lot and was generally very hard. A friend of mine thought that he could take my Wing Chun sifu. "Ha!" I declared that this would be impossible! After all, my sifu was good at chi sao. "But", my friend added, "what if Mr. X. was really, really angry!".
    "Ah!", I asserted, "the more angry he becomes, the more it would play into the hands of my instructor, who could more easily use his own strength against him!"

    I also believed that if I did Siu Nim Tao for long enough I would develop a stronger resistance to disease.

    I believed that because we apparently, occasionally had a boxer train with us (I never saw him) that Wing Chun was superior to boxing.

    I believed that Wing Chun punches had "superior mechanics" to boxing punches.

    My instructor could beat Royce Gracie using a horizontal elbow strike to the temple to defend the takedown.

    I believed that Wing Chun people would never get taken down....even though we never trained against takedowns and no one knew how to do a takedown.

    And in the rare event that the Wing Chun man got taken down, chi sao and superior punching mechanics would defeat the grappler. You could use Wing Chun centreline punches when mounted because they had such great mechanics.

    ---

    I know that everyone has stupid ideas when they're about 16, but damnit, I must have had twice as many stupid ideas....and it's all thanks to Wing Chun.

    How many more minds did Wing Chun poison?
    WELL, actually now is the time you are having your delusions by reading the above!
  2. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2006 2:06am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Meng, the vid had Dr. Leung pak sauing so I went with the balance of the structure in his hands. WT has pull/push/ sweep stuff and throws too, if you mean the general total body balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by wackamole
    Meng Mao: my experience with wing chun is that they don't go for as much off balance as you would see in say, judo or wrestling b/c they are only trying to disrupt the person enough to slip in a hit. Wing Chun's footwork is not optimal for throwing-- some footsweeps fine, but I've yet to see someone use it to pull of something like an uchimata.
    Ya, what he said. I like this guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by wackamole
    DTT,
    Okay. I've seen plenty of WT and yet to see a class that didn't emphasize the flurry more than taking the balance and absorbing the power. I'm open to being proved wrong however. Black swans and all that =)
    The vid shows what Chain punchs become. Your link to Gary Lamb vid also. If people don't learn it what can I say?

    or are you talking about Laut Sau? as in chain punch flurrys?



    Quote Originally Posted by wackamole
    Unfortunately from the clip you posted we don't see much of Boztepe's footwork/use of his horse to move the guy. He also uses a lot of twisting (apparently) and I can't tell if that's based on pivoting his horse, or if he is actually pivoting his waist. Which is what it looks like to me. If he is pivoting and articulating the waist then it is not a movement/strength that he got from doing the wing chun forms, it seems to me anyway.
    We don't use horses out here we drive cars or ride Bikes:hello: JK

    A close observtion will show that in the vid The Boz has his shoulder plane and waist plane linked almost through out. Thus, his pivoting is from the stance and not the spine. I assume by horse you mean stance and by articulating the waist you mean twisting with the lower back.


    Quote Originally Posted by wackamole
    Please don't take this personally-- but I've seen your posts about judo and wing chun etc, and frankly, in my experience you're flat wrong. I have tried to hit forward throws from that stance before and it doesn't work, because judo forward throws require the knees to rotate outwards. You see this dramatically in seio. Also in any of the pickups (ura nage/supplex). Take a look at what judo calls 'jigotai' (which is basically like a sumo stance) and it's very obvious:
    So no throw involving a turning rotation? I posted some thread links with judo having this, though mostly for sweeps.However, in my other Judo thread, I was talking about defending against throws, not doing throws.

    edit: I beleive a Tsuri Goshi can involve a minor inner rotation on the foot under the hip throw as well as in a Hanata Gawa No Seoi Nage. Kouchi Gaeshi can benifit from a toe in effect as well as Uchi Mata Sukashi. Hiza Guruma and Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi require it, but the are sweeps. I guess you can do these movement with the toes/knees pointed at right angles to the direction of force required in the standing leg, but that will seriously wear out that knee joint. (and yes I ma Judo Book owner and very proud of myself for using Judo Terms for techniques I can not do)


    Quote Originally Posted by wackamole
    I have _never_ seen _any_ judo player throw with internally rotated knees.

    Wing Chun also keeps a straight back and never uses the backbow (i.e bending the lower back). Unfortunately, judo requires the lower back to bend, in order to load the person, and then throw them.
    Correct, in theory, WT doesn't bend the torso or twist it. Only articulations of the limbs using the solid torso as a base.(Maybe some very minor twisting and bending).

    In the Boztepe Chi Sau link, he does total body "unbalancing" at :21 with a choke forcing a step back, at :26 with a neck pull, at :31 with a minor lop pull to trap, again at :39, all 3 pulling forward off balance. At :57 a minor neck crank unbalances Sifu Casey to the floor. At 1:12 he pulls off him balance into a reverse elbow to chin, then backs him up again. At 1:19 after a kick he pulls him forward off balance into a fall onto a knee followed by a textbook WT neck twist to turn him around and through him to the floor. Again at 1:39 he bounces Casey around off balance and finishes him off at 1:45 with a major twisting pulldown ending him on the floor. There are a few other off balance to hit in there and I am not counting any that destroy internal balance to to being hit or having a thumb jammed into each eye.

    So thats about 15 depending how I count in under 1:20 but it is always to achieve strikes of put someone on the floor.
    Last edited by Dr._Tzun_Tzu; 11/19/2006 2:22am at .

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  3. meng_mao is offline
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    software engineer

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2006 8:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know what I think is cool? That Jeff Monson used a Bong Sao in anticipation of getting hit with a cross. And not the 'true WC' fold-after-punch-because-of-newly-arisen-circumstances type of Bong Sao. Just a straight up Bong Sao whenever he thougt a cross was coming. I think it's just cool to see someone actually have the balls to implement that in the ring.
    52 blocks documentary: arrived

    "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White
  4. Axelton is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2006 10:14pm


     Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hey meng who won that fight between sylvia and monson?
  5. meng_mao is offline
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    software engineer

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    Posted On:
    11/19/2006 10:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelton
    hey meng who won that fight between sylvia and monson?
    Oh please. *rolls eyes*
    As if his little defensive tactic there was what lost the fight.
    Spoiler:
    If monson wanted to win, he need to work harder when he had tim on the ground, or do more clinching, or something.
    Last edited by meng_mao; 11/19/2006 11:43pm at .
    52 blocks documentary: arrived

    "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White
  6. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Least Cool Guy in all of Japan
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    Posted On:
    11/19/2006 11:14pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Watch the damn spoilers for a few days at least pleeeeeease!
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
    Scramble Stuff
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