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  1. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/16/2006 11:40pm

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    STAB

    So this video been post quite a few times, so it time for its own thread

    http://www.openmat.dk/video/csa/stab.wmv

    For the short Video:


    Postive:
    1. Control. The Control of the Knife with the position is very good. I like using the head to control the shoulder.

    2. Footwork. Using the Knife Hand to Off balance and get behind was impressive.



    Negative:
    1. Disarming the blade. From that position, you can punish your attacker, but getting them to drop them weapon from there isn't explored.

    2. The other hand is left to dangle. What if they have another blade? TOO MUCH focus on the knife hand, what about the rest of the body?
  2. MrSparkle is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 12:42am


     Style: Hung Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe I missed something but once you have someone's arm under control like that, you generally have the upperhand. This was a good test of how to get a feel of what you need to do and that it's not "all over for the attacker" once you grab his arm. But grabbing onto a knife-wielding arm is the hardest part and I only saw them go over that maybe once. It could be that they just didn't show it in the video. I would think that it would be more important to train how to grab someone's arm that is being thrust at you with a knife appointed at the end than what to do once you're in control of someone's arm.
    On the other hand, i'm glad it's not the idea that "you've got his arm locked out. He's not going to try to punch you and you can walk him around wherever you want now." That's some of the worst logic in martial arts that train these types of things.
    I also like how that one guy ran away after failing to disarm the attacker. Really, I do. He had a much better chance of surviving running away, and it was good instinct.
    As for the lack of disarms, though, he showed a lot of possible arm breaks in the beginning. Wouldn't that usually disarm the knife hand? I've heard some police stories where even when people break their arms, they'll still try to shoot/or stab at you. Whether it's because of an adrenalin rush or a last of survival. Therefore, I don't really know if breaking the arm would be a disarm or not 100% of the time. Anyone more knowledgable about that sort of thing?
  3. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 12:57am

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSparkle
    Maybe I missed something but once you have someone's arm under control like that, you generally have the upperhand. This was a good test of how to get a feel of what you need to do and that it's not "all over for the attacker" once you grab his arm. But grabbing onto a knife-wielding arm is the hardest part and I only saw them go over that maybe once. It could be that they just didn't show it in the video. I would think that it would be more important to train how to grab someone's arm that is being thrust at you with a knife appointed at the end than what to do once you're in control of someone's arm.
    On the other hand, i'm glad it's not the idea that "you've got his arm locked out. He's not going to try to punch you and you can walk him around wherever you want now." That's some of the worst logic in martial arts that train these types of things.
    I also like how that one guy ran away after failing to disarm the attacker. Really, I do. He had a much better chance of surviving running away, and it was good instinct.
    As for the lack of disarms, though, he showed a lot of possible arm breaks in the beginning. Wouldn't that usually disarm the knife hand? I've heard some police stories where even when people break their arms, they'll still try to shoot/or stab at you. Whether it's because of an adrenalin rush or a last of survival. Therefore, I don't really know if breaking the arm would be a disarm or not 100% of the time. Anyone more knowledgable about that sort of thing?

    Yes a good break should and will disarm the blade. However, it looked like he was controlling the elbow against the body not snapping it.

    As for "grabbing" the knife hand. It look like he just entering and securing the wrist. No Wrist No Attack. (Wondering why all this old Japanese Blade Art had wrist escapes? hmmmm....)
  4. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 1:02am


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This looks like a beginners RBSD class for handling a brandished knife. Getting a hold of the arm and isolating that elbow is important if you know the knife is there.

    I liked the getting behind, but I also though that shoving their shoulder into them for 3-4 steps would be important. This would keep them from being able to punch effectively. Also you could drop and turn them into the ground upon occassion, but certainly not a magic bullet type technique. Also running them into a nearby wall is always good, furniture, and follow up from there.

    It is true that if you can isolate the elbow, they can't cut very effectively (note: I said very effectively). What I am worried about is them transitioning that knife to the other hand, not if they have another knife. Unless people train backup weapon transition, they are unlikely to be able to do it in a high stress situation. Weapon fixation is very real and prevents most untrained people to be able to fall back on secondary weapons.

    It looks to me, that in the initial position of having the arm secured and head in shoulder that you could run that shoulder straight to the ground (and forward a little) and this may give you the opportunity to get the knife out of his hand, but I will have to try it to see. The wife will love that! Here honey, take this rubber knife *huh, what*, crunch, hmmm......nope let's due it again....

    The teacher sometimes seems to bring his head infront of the shoulder, I think that it is important to keep the head further back, keeping their shoulder forward thus affecting their balance and the elbow. This is not easy to do, of course. Again, I will have to try that out.

    I agree with Mr. Sparkle that how to get the arm is very important. It presumes that you know about the knife, of course.

    Overall, isolating the arm/elbow and grounding them face down is, imho, a good way to go if you can do it.

    Running is also a good thing, if you can outrun the attacker. A lot of people I have read and spoken to who have been in the **** for real say that running from a knife wielding attacker should only be done if you have sufficient distance to begin with or have somehow blocked their ability to chase you. I am not saying this is correct, it is just what I have seen or heard stated.

    Some of the prison stabbing videos I have seen would seem to support this to some degree. Even in a big field, the target gets stabbed.
  5. hapkido_keith is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 1:03am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSparkle
    As for the lack of disarms, though, he showed a lot of possible arm breaks in the beginning. Wouldn't that usually disarm the knife hand? I've heard some police stories where even when people break their arms, they'll still try to shoot/or stab at you. Whether it's because of an adrenalin rush or a last of survival. Therefore, I don't really know if breaking the arm would be a disarm or not 100% of the time. Anyone more knowledgable about that sort of thing?
    Well logic says that even if your enemy is hyped up on adrenalin/drugs and is feeling no pain, breaking his arm is at least going to degrade his ability to attack. Broken limbs just don't work as well no matter how much you ignor the pain.
  6. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 1:05am


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    (Wondering why all this old Japanese Blade Art had wrist escapes? hmmmm....)
    Exactly! Tanto jutsu, when you lost your long weapon and they were trying to put that under your armor or into your armpit...grab that wrist. I believe that a lot of yawara technique started with tantojutsu.
  7. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 1:14am

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     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord325
    Exactly! Tanto jutsu, when you lost your long weapon and they were trying to put that under your armor or into your armpit...grab that wrist. I believe that a lot of yawara technique started with tantojutsu.
    That was sacarsm. Alot of the Ryu Ha like Asayama Ichiden had wrist espaces to get free to draw the sword from your obi. Getting your Knife Hand free, is just another application.
  8. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 1:21am


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, it is also a fact. When someone was inside your sword range with a shorter weapon, you try to stop the knife arm. Because you had armor you had a better chance, as there were fewer open spots. The counter to this were maneuvers to allow you to cut kote with the blade, and it just so happens that those types of movements are similar to the now pretty useless wrist escapes found in so many arts and some yawara techniques.
  9. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2006 7:22pm

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     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's certainly Alive training so it can't be too bad. I've seen other STAB stuff and would like to see more.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  10. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2006 7:55pm

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     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kickcatcher
    It's certainly Alive training so it can't be too bad. I've seen other STAB stuff and would like to see more.
    Agreed. At 1:45, I was very happy to see the attacker punch the defender in the head with his free hand.
    :new_all_c
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