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  1. herbm is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 12:26pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas View Post
    Thanks. Good explaination for the "method behind the madness".

    I imagine the accuracy issue, pointed out by Robsta, simply comes down to 1) your life is in danger so deadly force is justified, 2) run away, and 3) spray and pray hoping you hold a double stacked clip and not a 1911.

    Although, regardless of whether or not deadly force is justified, the liability association with a "spray and pray" is life changingly high.
    You have the basic idea. I pretty much agree with everything except this:

    1) "Spray and pray" -- you practice this just like any other shooting skill and you do get better with practice. You are "aiming" in the sense that you are putting "metal on meat", looking down the barrel, trying to get shots center of mass.

    As to the single stack 1911 with 7 or so rounds, this is a personal choice, and most of the times with Airsoft firing more than 4-5 shots is rare. Again it's about saving your life.

    If deadly force is not justified you have NO BUSINESS doing any of this nor (in Texas) even drawing or EVEN "mentioning" the firearm. Any Texas at least, any reference to a Concealed Firearm or any display is "brandishing" and against the law without deadly force justification.

    2) If you carry a single stack 1911 or 6-shot revolver it behooves you to develop more accuracy under REALISTIC conditions (see Force-On-Force), or to carry extra mag/reloads, or to carry a backup firearm.

    Few people that I know, carry less than about 11 rounds in the firearm or fewer than one spare mag once they see these force on force exercises play out.

    To reiterate though: Deadly force should not only be authorized, it should be your only viable choice before you start shooting criminals or knifing them.

    We spend a LOT of time working the scenarios PRIOR to the point of fighting -- trying to find ways to AVOID the criminal attack altogether and to SHORT-CIRCUIT the criminals' plan or script for committing the crime.

    Our real goal: Go home safe.

    It's not to look cool, shoot bad guys, make arrests (except those of us working as LEOs), or do anything else except get us and our families away safely.
    Last edited by herbm; 3/21/2012 12:30pm at .
  2. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 1:57pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And just for reference or the videos I was talking about. Here is the thread from before, about a similar topic.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113797
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  3. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 2:46pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is the guy with the gun crossing his legs as he's moving in that picture?
  4. herbm is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2012 3:47pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    > Is the guy with the gun crossing his legs as he's moving in that picture?

    I don't actually know but it looks like it -- if so likely due to the fact that this typical movement ends up being 'spiral' a lot of the time.

    Also note, that the gun work in the picture may not be AMOK! 'doctrine' just that it is derived based on "fighting it out" and the guys in that picture also do AMOK!.

    Also note that the picture is not supposed to be "instructional" but merely a Mast Head so:

    Ultimately, it's about pressure testing what works, and over time that will evolve even for a single individual.
    Last edited by herbm; 3/21/2012 3:53pm at .
  5. herbm is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/25/2012 11:27pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my earlier posts I mentioned AMOK! has no videos. That changed this week.

    The new videos are in fact quite excellent and should vastly improve the ease with which AMOK! can be learned and training groups can practice.

    You can use my affiliate link -- CAVEAT, I get something from that:
    http://herbmartin.sotisgroup.hop.clickbank.net

    Or you can go direct if you prefer: http://combativestraining.com


    There are about 30-35 short (2-10 minutes each) videos on each of Knife Defense and Knife Fighting. About 3 1/2 hours (total) for about $90.

    They are really good if you want to learn this stuff.

    --
    HerbM
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 8:21am

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So is the AMOK! material included in the combativestraining stuff? Or is it simplified or different in some way?
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  7. herbm is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 3:51pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Diesel_tke,

    Not positive I fully understand the question so if I miss you point please just let me know:

    The CombativesTraining site is selling access to the videos Tom is producing for an initial fee (about $90) and some yearly follow-up (I think $25).

    Right now, there are 2 sets of videos:

    Knife Defense (unarmed defense against a knife)

    Knife Fighting (access against an armed attack, and then fighting with your own knife)

    These are essentially "Basic AMOK!" whether that is the official title or not.

    Tom says there will be more and I believe him, but I'll also warn you that we were a LONG TIME waiting for these even though we've wanted to buy them for quite some time.

    My understanding is that if and when there are more videos these will be included in the current (and ongoing) subscription, i.e., "nothing else to buy".

    Theoretically new videos might include other subjects, e.g., "Managing Criminal Assaults" which is about avoiding attacks all together and taking action to improve one's tactical situation SHOULD the criminal continue despite these counter-measures.

    BUT, there is far more already identified as AMOK! curriculum, "Ground Fighting", more advance "Take downs" (there is a very little in the current sets), Knifer's Clench, Trapping, etc.

    Tom has previously done seminars on all these subjects and more, so we are hoping that all this and more will get added over time.

    For now, I will say that even having attended his seminars, the cost of the 2 CURRENT SETS was a good deal to me personally.

    Although you should understand that since I lead a training group, I need these as much for reference to ensure I am showing my training partners the correct and full curriculum and not just what I have (already) adapted for myself.

    There is also access to the "Forum" include, but Tom has made a tactical and marketing mistake by limiting that only to people who are paid members.

    If you want to come over to the FREE CombativesTrainingGroup.com there is a lot of discussion of not just AMOK! but anything about making us safer against criminal attack.

    Many/most of the people on this free site have trained with Tom or have studied AMOK! but it is in no way officially affiliated.

    Just a bunch of folks trying to "improve our abilities".

    Almost all these groups are non-commercial. My group is.

    Non-commercial doesn't not necessarily mean totally free.

    For instance, I charge my group members $40 per month but that is paid directly to our host gym for access fees. We don't (try to) make any money from our training.

    --
    HerbM
  8. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2012 8:54pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, that answered my question. Thank you.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
  9. SteveM is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2012 12:03am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Central Texas Combatives Training Group Style: AMOK!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm...just to clarify a little more, these videos do contain some of the core content of AMOK!, essentially the fundamental movements, but they completely lack the training methodology of AMOK!. So to call them "Basic AMOK!" is really an overstatement IMHO as they in no way get you doing AMOK! any more than learning the alphabet makes you a writer. This is by design.

    However, I will say the content on the videos is quite good and could be incorporated easily into whatever training methodology you currently use. In your case Diesel_tke you already have a hard sparring methodology, so incorporating the video content would be easy and effective.
  10. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/27/2012 8:34am

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
    However, I will say the content on the videos is quite good and could be incorporated easily into whatever training methodology you currently use. In your case Diesel_tke you already have a hard sparring methodology, so incorporating the video content would be easy and effective.
    Yeah, that was what I was thinking too. I know that one of the gems of AMOK! is the training method combined with the techniques. I think it's a pretty cool way of showing some of the basics. Most FMA systems hold their stuff really close and it is hard to explore other stuff. The only ones I see that are really open about their training is the Dog Brothers. But seeing as how a lot of the CTCTG guys train with Dog Brothers, and you have some parallel training ideas, this makes since.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.
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