Thread: Black Talon Myths
4/16/2006 11:57pm, #11Originally Posted by SFGOON
1. Would that make it a better self defense round then the Black Talon?
2. Know a good place/company to order Frangible Ammunition if I wanted to play with it?
4/17/2006 12:03am, #12
I'm gonna say no on that first one. The powder charges are different for frangibles and they might not work optimally in you pistol. If your target is sporting leathers they might afford him some excellent protection from frangibles. You're better off with hollowpoints, especially if you're paking 9mm. Penetration is only for the devil if you're on a tac team raiding a dynamite lab with a preschool for a front operation.
Google "glazier safety slug" or "glaiser" if the first one yields no reulsts. They're fucking expenisve, so only buy enough to sate your curiosity. Take them to the range, fire them into a rack of uncooked ribs and see how you like them.
4/17/2006 2:15am, #13Originally Posted by SFGOON
4/17/2006 10:05am, #14
And bring barbeque sauce!!!
4/17/2006 11:07am, #15
That's actually spelled "Glaser." They are expensive, and there is some question as to how effective they really are terminally compared to hollow point designs like what you already have.
The hollow point is designed to penetrate while making as wide a wound channel as possible and damaging the tissue along the channel as much as possible. If the hollow point gets plugged by cloth, for instance, it may not open--but then you still get the performance of a FMJ round without the hollow point--basically, more penetration, but possibly less energy transferred into the target in the form of damage along the way.
The frangible is designed to do damage inside the body as well, but it is not designed to penetrate. The more you want a bullet to penetrate, the more you need it to stay together in one mass. This is referred to as weight retention or mass retention and it's studied pretty carefully. This is why big game hunters after animals like elephant speak of using "solids." They're using slugs turned from solid copper, which don't open up or deform, but DO retain almost all their mass as they pass through tough hide and several feet of flesh. These things penetrate a LONG way.
Soft points and hollow points are designed to deform, but as hard as they hit, that can often mean that fragments will break off. Each fragment has much less mass and loses its energy fairly quickly; the main mass is also that much smaller than it was and also loses energy more quickly than it would if it had remained whole. But if you want to design the best possible self defense bullet, you balance this with the need for expansion. As in all things, you want as much as you can get without being too much. How far can I make this round expand and still retain enough mass to get the penetration I want?
The frangibles are special-purpose rounds that throw that balancing act out the window. Their whole design is intended to stop penetration and ricochet as much as possible, and the only way you can absorb that much energy and not direct it off in another direction (or through the barrier) is to soak it up in destroying the projectile itself.
Unfortunately, you can't make it do this against a wall and not against a rib, so the concern is that frangibles often result in fairly shallow wounds that look horrible (because there will be awful bleeding and tissue will be mangled locally) but are not deep enough to incapacitate the attacker.
4/17/2006 11:17am, #16
Aren't Golden Sabres re-packaged Black Talons?Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
4/17/2006 12:27pm, #17
4/17/2006 2:02pm, #18
If we're on the topic of a good personal defense round I like the federal hydra-shok.
Good punch, though a bit pricey so not what you would call a target shooting bullet.
Info on it:
Some more info:
check out the expansion on this sucker..
4/19/2006 11:34am, #19Originally Posted by saturnjunkie
Where do you pick them up?
4/19/2006 2:40pm, #20
I load those for personal defense in my 38 special. Haven't bought any for the 45 yet. They shoot pretty well from the few I've shot at the range.
I just buy mine at the gun store.