Black Talon Myths

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 2:40pm

So recently I picked up some Black Talons for my "carry round" (Quoted do to Maryland's insane CCW laws). While I was talking to the guy at the shop (people who know me know I like to picked people's brain on subjects I have little knowledge of), I asked the guy about some on the rumors I read on the "Cop Killer Bullets", to which is explain they are jacked hollowpoints, expand better and are used my police rather then against and won't go through bullet proof vests (as rumored).

Being an internet junkie I was searching for info on the Black Talons and came across the Cop Killer Myth ALOT. Eventually I came across this posting, that I think sums it up nicely and I wanted to post it.

Originally Posted by http://www.frizzensparks.com/archives/000374.html

The "Cop Killer" bullet myth

Reading the article from the asshole making fun of NRA members as racist rednecks pissed me off.
The mention of teflon coated "Cop Killer" bullets pissed me off more.
Let's set a few things straight for those of you out there who don't know very much about this stuff other than what the media feeds you.

1) NOT A SINGLE POLICE OFFICER HAS EVER BEEN KILLED BY A SO CALLED "COP KILLER" BULLET PENETRATING A PROTECTIVE VEST. That deserved to be screamed.

2) Teflon will NOT make a bullet "slip" through armor. The bullets in question were designed for use by military and law enforcement personel to be able to shoot through car doors, walls, etc. when needed. They did this by making the bullet itself out of case hardened steel, tungsten, or some other hardened materials which would penetrate harder targets at handgun velocities. The teflon coating was not the part of the bullet that made it "armor piercing", the design of the bullet itself was. The teflon coating was on the bullet so these harder materials wouldn't damage the inside of the gun barrel after repeated firings.

3) "Black Talon" bullets are NOT armor piercing. They are designed for a very specific (and deadly) type of expansion when they enter a soft target (like a person). Think about it for a minute, how could a bullet go through a hard traget without deforming, yet expand when it hits a soft one? It doesn't vibe with the laws of physics. A class II/A protective vest (standard for police) will easily stop a balck talon bullet.

4) The NRA did NOT fight for the right to own "cop killer" bullets for deer hunting. When the media used the inaccurate "cop killer" hype, the anti-gun assholes (specifically Mario Biaggi D-NY) in congress used it to try and push a ban on any ammunition that when fired out of a 5" barrelled handgun would penetrate 18 layers of kevlar. As written that legislation would have affected 85% of conventional rifle ammunition. Of course when the NRA opposed it, the anti-gun spin was that the NRA wanted cop killer bullets legal for deer hunting. I could write a fucking book about how the media getting away with **** like that is going to give me a goddamn stroke.

If anybody has information, and by information I mean solid FACTS and not hype, disputing this drop me an e-mail or dump it in the comments.

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 6:50pm

Yup. AP (Armor Piercing) is generally just a steel or tungsten bullet. The best ones use a small, thin tungsten "sabot" suspended in the middle of the projectile. When the round hits the Armour, it squashes and transfers all of it's energy to the sabot which then flies though the armor. It won't cause much of a wound, that's for sure.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 7:58pm

No need to go looking for Black Talons. If you really want 'em, Winchester still sells the Ranger SXT. SXT, according to some Winchester wholesale reps, stands for "Same Exact Thing."

In any case, the SXT is the Black Talon either without a center post the BT had, or with a center post the BT lacked. I can never remember which.

Either way, the Black Talon is not the buzzsaw people made it out to be. It's a good round, but not really anything revolutionary. The petals have sharp points when it expands, but that's about it. Lots of rounds do that.

**saturnjunkie** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 8:08pm

3 Words for uber-bullets: Flower power shredders.

Jacketed hollowpoint with a tungsten carbide tip in the center. Looks like a little flower. Those things do one HELL of a number on a 55 gallon steel drum.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 8:13pm

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

No need to go looking for Black Talons. If you really want 'em, Winchester still sells the Ranger SXT. SXT, according to some Winchester wholesale reps, stands for "Same Exact Thing."

In any case, the SXT is the Black Talon either without a center post the BT had, or with a center post the BT lacked. I can never remember which.

Either way, the Black Talon is not the buzzsaw people made it out to be. It's a good round, but not really anything revolutionary. The petals have sharp points when it expands, but that's about it. Lots of rounds do that.

Yes, they are, the rounds I have are actually the Ranger SXT. Same thing as the Black Talon, but Black Talons is a more recongizable name.

Kinda Blurry, but here a pic of the Ranger SXT

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 8:52pm

Aha! Again you are one step ahead of me. . . .

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 9:22pm

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

Aha! Again you are one step ahead of me. . . .

If you are referring to the Picture, please post it. My camera wasn't good enough for the fine detail.

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 10:48pm

IF you wan't a truly interesting pistol round, forget hollowpoints and take a look at frangible ammo. It has some uniquque properites that make it dealy in l"direct hit"circumstances, but harmless with overpenetration issues.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 10:53pm

Originally Posted by SFGOON

IF you wan't a truly interesting pistol round, forget hollowpoints and take a look at frangible ammo. It has some uniquque properites that make it dealy in l"direct hit"circumstances, but harmless with overpenetration issues.

Funny enough I was on the IMI webiste earlier and they mentioned Frangible Ammo. Is that the round that distingrates on impact? How does that type of round work?

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 4/16/2006 11:43pm

Think of a glass bullet. It hits the target and instead of expending it's energy penetrating, it shatters. The shards do all the damage, and all the energy is expended in the target, giving it excellent stopping power.

Generally speaking, the bullets are hollowed out and filled with fine shot suspended in some sort of thick liquid. There is zero danger of overpenetration, but severe damage is caused when the round strikes tissue. Because the hemmoraging can be so severe, a limb shot resulting in a kill (in time) is very feasable.