Thread: Falling: Judo vs. Wrestling
4/18/2006 5:34pm, #31Originally Posted by Darkpaladin
Ask Ken Shamrock about being "tough enough" to take a fall in wrestling
4/19/2006 2:28pm, #32
Sorry, Mr. Oishi didn't have much time today. He was off to play some lawyer on Law and Order and was pissed it wasn't a speaking part.
He did confirm my original speculation that holding on helps you pull your head up while you're being thrown, however. I'll probably get another chance to see him within a week or so to discuss why a wrestler doesn't seem to care about that.
Last edited by Tom Kagan; 4/19/2006 2:31pm at . Reason: your -> you're
4/19/2006 6:50pm, #33
The thing about holding on when you're being thrown is it will tend to move your back down to the mat. To spin out of a throw in mid-air you need to push off and let go. It's hard to describe and honestly not a lot of people have the reflexes and kinesthetic sense (the sense of your body in open space) to do it.
So if I'm caught in a hip throw and take off my feet, rather than holding on I push away with my hand and spin my legs out. When you're going over in a hip throw your body is rotating onto your back so your push sets you going the other way. Throwing your legs out spins you so that you land on your front instead of your back, sort of like a sprawl. It's very hard to describe and like I said it's not easy to do but if you look at high level fighters, that's their defense. If you hold on you may land in a somewhat more controlled fashion with your head off the mat but you will take a score. Plus if you have proper body control you should be more than capable of keeping your head off the mat during a fall without holding on.
Last edited by Judobum; 4/19/2006 6:55pm at .
4/19/2006 6:54pm, #34Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
Do I need to breakfall in matches or randori? No. I definately am able to cushion myself by controlling my body when I'm thrown and that's definately what I do in competitions. Breakfalls are more to protect your body in practice. You get thown often and it's easier on your body to take the fall and breakfall to minimize the repeated impacts. That might be why wrestlers don't do ukemi actually since they likely don't get thrown a whole lot in practice.
I'd definatley be interested in what Mr. Oishi had to say on the topic though since he has experience from both sides.
4/19/2006 7:14pm, #35Originally Posted by JudobumShut the hell up and train.
4/19/2006 7:26pm, #36Originally Posted by jnp"No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
4/19/2006 10:39pm, #37
Originally Posted by jnp
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4/19/2006 11:45pm, #38
I stand corrected on the wrestling throwing training. I still think that judo places a lot more emphasis and training time on throws though and thus needs more emphasis on protecting oneself while practicing them. I would guess that 60% of a judo practice involves throwing. I have no idea what the wrestling % would be but I imagine it's a lot less on average.
4/20/2006 1:23am, #39
From what I see, the design of the throws and the surface thrown on are very different between the 2. Wrestling mats are like pillows compared to the tatami that I currently train on and in wrestling (usually) the opponent is trying to get you down, not put you through the floor back first.
In Judo, sometimes the throws have a whipping effect on your spine and neck, making the neccessity of ukemi more important. I have been slammed in wrestling but the mechanics were different.
4/20/2006 1:27am, #40Originally Posted by MONGOMartial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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