Britards and their rifles

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 6:53am

Legend has it that during at least one engagement in WWI Europe, the Germans mistook aimed fire from Enfield rifles for machine gun fire. I've never seen that confirmed, though.
Great rifle either way, though. Now that you have your Cruffler license, there are a lot more of them out there. The Yugoslavian SKS is everywhere now, and the Swiss K31's are fantastic. I picked one up as my first CRFFL purchase for $90, and it outshoots my modern rifles (which, to be fair, are not the top of the line.) The Swiss uses a round that's roughly equivalent to .308. Ammo is pricy, but you can handload for cheap.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 7:22am

Originally Posted by Phrost

I took the Britard thing in the context that they tried to outlaw pointy kitchen knives

I should point out that no major political party suggested this, and no bill was every introduced or even written. It was a suggestion by some British people not in charge of anything.

It's not as if the gun nut/survivalist/neocon crowd doesn't have plenty to flame us about already.

**Truculent Sheep** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 7:45am

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

Legend has it that during at least one engagement in WWI Europe, the Germans mistook aimed fire from Enfield rifles for machine gun fire. I've never seen that confirmed, though.

The overall standard of 'musketry' amongst British troops was pretty impressive, as it happens, but the tactics required for trench warfare meant mass fire wasn't that much use from the middle of the war onwards.

But at least it was better than the early French method, which was fixing your bayonet and charging in come what may. (Which is one of the reasons why so many Savate professeurs bought it in the Great War. That said, the French really did have balls - believe it or not! - and won some major victories against The Hun, but only after they learned better tactics.)

**Neildo** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 2:07pm

Originally Posted by Truculent Sheep

It's odd we now make utter **** like the SA80.

Uh..?

Originally Posted by The Wikipedia Article you posted

In March 2005, the L85A2 was put through its paces against the M16, M4, AK-101, FAMAS G2 and G36E modern rifles. [citation needed] It outperformed all of them in accuracy (even without the SUSATs), reload speed (physically changing magazine on the move and static) and usability in urban and close-quarters combat (because of its shorter overall length and the ability to affix a bayonet). A2 upgraded versions also have a higher muzzle velocity. The AK-101 won reliability on multiple terrain, weather and climatic scenarios. The ranks in the test were:

SA80
G36E
AK-101
M16 family
FAMAS G2

- Kein Haar, is that the one that goes *PING* when you empty the mag?

**Phrost** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 2:27pm

Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn

I should point out that no major political party suggested this, and no bill was every introduced or even written. It was a suggestion by some British people not in charge of anything.

It's not as if the gun nut/survivalist/neocon crowd doesn't have plenty to flame us about already.

The word "neocon" refers to liberals who lean towards conservative principles, not "ultra-conservative".

**Mjelva** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 4:35pm

Originally Posted by Neildo

Uh..?

- Kein Haar, is that the one that goes *PING* when you empty the mag?

You're missing the point, dude. It's not that the SA80 is inaccurate or slow to reload, and the short size probably does make it practical in cramped quarters. The point is that it's unreliable.

And I think the Garand is the one that goes "ping".

**Neildo** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 4:43pm

I thought the old ones were unrelaible, but the A2's are better.

Or do I fail at reading? wouldn't be the first time.....

**Truculent Sheep** · Posted On: 4/13/2006 5:09pm

Originally Posted by Neildo

Uh..?

You have to be wary of SA80 tests, especially if they're organised by the MoD. As this article indicates, many senior officers in the British military want it scrapped, but to do so would be politically embarrassing for the establishment and the British arms industry.

That said, the SA80 is very accurate, but only in pristine conditions (where there's no mud/****/sand/dust/sludge getting churned up in the background). Tellingly, the only country that the UK has successfully exported the SA80 to is, err, Mozambique. No one else wants to touch it.

The SAS and SBS, meanwhile, prefer the C7 rifle. Go moose-shaggers, go!