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  1. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2006 1:01pm


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like I said, that was somewhat scripted for the sake of getting things started.

    The good news is that there are really very few people who know how to do a proper RNC. Usually it is just some sort of strangle hold or head lock, or at best a trachea crush, which though painful and dangerous, buys you time. Even my RNC could probably use work these days.

    The other thing is that a person who is attempting sexual assault is doing just that, they are not planning on a fight, typically. A lot of attacks do end by the victim fighting back. Once things get noisy and dangerous, attackers will usually seek a way out of the situation in a sexual assault situation. This isn't a "fight" that the attacker is looking for. However, the fighting back has to be a coordinated and concerted effort.

    Somebody was talking about eye gouges. The problem with eye gouges is that they typicaly push the head back out of range particular from a pinned position, thus are usually not effective. To actually gouge an eye, you have to have some sort of stable position from which to apply force. If you want to damage their eye effectively, you have to actually touch the eyeball and scratch it. We have autonomic responses to this. It isn't the d3adly but it can buy you time, and it doesn't require as much force as a gouging maneuver. If you can isolate their head then a gouge is possible.

    A good way to attack the eye is to use the thumb nail and hit the center of the eye then slash down to the cheek bone. Or you can go to the inner corner of the eye and slash outwards. Or a sharp poke into the eye will stagger them, but it won't stop them, it is just a opportunity creator.

    What is more effective for head control is latching onto an ear, though. You can tear one off the head if you have enough leverage.

    Hitting the attacker with an improvised weapon is always possible, as previously mentioned. Read an account where a woman, "submitted" and then bashed the guy in the head with the corner of a heavy table lamp, repeatedly. It worked.

    Also, people here poo poo groin grabs. However, most non-trained guys are really not cool with having their testicles strangled. It just freaks them out. If you do it right you isolate one testicle and squeeze and twist, this is very painful. This isn't that hard to do if they are wearing baggier pants or shorts. Through jeans this is harder to do.

    Again not the d3adly, but there are documented cases of women submitting an attacker with this. In one case a little old lady told her attacker she would blow him and got him to drop his pants. Then she just wrapped his testicles up in her hand, led him to the phone, called the police AND then tossed him out on the front porch. He passed out and the cops found him. Excellent use of psychological tactics on an idiot. Our jimmies are placed between our legs for a reason, a few reasons, and exposing them to attack is really stupid, but these guys aren't in a "fight" so they aren't thinking about their survival.

    SD is not the same as fighting a match, particularly for women. The goal is to survive and live, not "win" in the traditional sense. I think this is just as valid for men on many levels.

    Yrkoon9 brought up some great points, and I completely agree with the kicking a guy when he is down thing. We taught our people to go for the ribs and head and stomp on ankles (can't do that full contact in training though). Then when they think the person is unconscious, they collect and assess the situation, yell "No" really loud while moving to above their head (hard position to defend) and then leave the area if possible.

    The last thing is how to deal with the cops, because if someone called them they may arrive. The cops see your student with unconscious dude on the ground. Guess who is the potential bad guy in their eyes? So, we taught them to fully comply with the police but they had a script to say. I won't write it hear for sake of brevity.

    Good physical technique IS important in SD, but many times it is less important than the socialpsychological tactics. People understand fighting soon enough, but getting them to change social habits and recognize that people (particularly people they thought loved them) can be very evil is very, very difficult.

    Our primary goal was to give them a skillset that was both physical and psychological, give them a set of goals, and then teach them some flexibility in that plan for a better chance at dealing with all the things we couldn't possibly cover. We tried to pick things that worked in a variety of situations.

    We also gave them the option to submit if they felt their life would be saved by doing so. It isn't up to us as instructors to make that determination for them. This isn't a match with a referee who will stop it once you pass out or are KO'd.
  2. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2006 1:05pm


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Avatar

    Danno,

    Where did you get that Avatar? Why does that seem familiar to me? That is funny.

    It makes me think of the bunny/pancake on head thing.
  3. TheSparrow is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2006 3:56pm


     Style: Shutting up and training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If someone were to grab and squeeze one of my balls, I'm sure I'd jump and squeal like a piggy. But I'd hope that I would then lay them out soon after. Even if they grab and run, they won't get too far.
  4. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/16/2006 10:14pm


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If someone were to grab and squeeze one of my balls, I'm sure I'd jump and squeal like a piggy. But I'd hope that I would then lay them out soon after. Even if they grab and run, they won't get too far.
    This next question is going to seem like a dick thing to say. Understand I am making a point and don't think you are a rapist. I just want you to think about what you said.

    Are you planning on raping any women soon, 'cause that is what we are talking about here. This isn't a toe to toe fight. This about a guy trying to sexually assault a woman with as little hassle and notice as possible.

    See this is the macho stuff I am talking about. "I'd just hit them." We aren't talking about a match, we are talking about a particular violent arena, different goals and outcomes. The fact that YOU are there in the scenario I am talking about is because you want to rape a woman, not roll with her. As things go sour for the typical rapist (who is not a freak in a trenchcoat or a huge slobbering monster but is someone arroused by violent rape) they are thinking of getting out of there fast, the sexual arrousal they felt is fading fast when they are getting hit with lamps, testicals twisted, ears ripped up, etc. Not to mention that every second he spends in the struggle may mean the cops are on the way.

    The interesting thing about getting a hold of the one ball is that it causes a lot of tearing that just squeezing both nuts does not. You get to twist the seminal vesicals and tear the connective tissue of the scrotum. Plus you can squeeze a lot harder and actually twist the scrotum all the way around this is not you typical "monkey steals peaches" kung fu bullshit. There is a technique to it, just like there is an efficient way to do an armbar. At some point to rape a woman, the bad guy has to take it out and use his hands to do it.

    In the case of the old lady, he did hit her, she just kept squeezing and holding on. He passed out. She was on Oprah a few years ago. She may not even be alive anymore, I don't know. Pretty ballsy (pun intended) and quick thinking on her part.

    There is a nausea effect to this as well that can make it hard to concentrate and it can make you pass out.

    *edited a mis-statement
    Last edited by Fnord325; 4/16/2006 10:40pm at .
  5. TheSparrow is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 6:25am


     Style: Shutting up and training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord325
    Are you planning on raping any women soon, 'cause that is what we are talking about here. This isn't a toe to toe fight. This about a guy trying to sexually assault a woman with as little hassle and notice as possible.

    The interesting thing about getting a hold of the one ball is that it causes a lot of tearing that just squeezing both nuts does not. You get to twist the seminal vesicals and tear the connective tissue of the scrotum. Plus you can squeeze a lot harder and actually twist the scrotum all the way around this is not you typical "monkey steals peaches" kung fu bullshit. There is a technique to it, just like there is an efficient way to do an armbar. At some point to rape a woman, the bad guy has to take it out and use his hands to do it.

    In the case of the old lady, he did hit her, she just kept squeezing and holding on. He passed out. She was on Oprah a few years ago. She may not even be alive anymore, I don't know. Pretty ballsy (pun intended) and quick thinking on her part.
    Oops. I've no intention of raping anyone, I was looking at it in a general self defence kind of way.

    As you note, squeezing a ball can do some serious damage and that old woman is proof of it. However, I'm sure there is proof out there of Wing Chun working in the ring at one point in history. How often is a self defence situation resolved with this technique?

    I also think that there is a difference between that and an armbar. Squeezing a ball requires fine motor skills, which you lose when adrenaline flows. An armbar is far bigger movements.
  6. Fnord325 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/17/2006 10:45am


     Style: Budo Taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I won't argue that an armbar won't work, if you can train it into somebody and they can pull it off. I can see it functioning well if the attacker is pawing at a woman he has pinned. His hand is on her chest, pin, up, rotate, walla. Particularly if she can hide it a little by "overacting." It is a perfect setup and it allows the woman to use the power of her legs, which is something women do have when countering men's upper body strength.

    I am not sure it is as fine a motor movement as you think, though. It is a technique, you just don't grope away, but you basically just follow the thigh up thus hitting one side or the other. Plus, as I stated, a rapist will, at some point have to place himself in an exposed position to carry out the sexual assault.

    Actually, I have read quite a few accounts of women using attacks to the testicals (grabbing twisting) to escape situations. Like I said, most untrained guys, particularly one's who in a sexually aroused state don't react well to it. Those of us who have been on the matt may not be so fazed by it, we are used to balls being clipped, elbowed, kneed, etc.

    This is not the case for a lot of guys. I don't go down from a kick to the balls unless it is right on and totally catches me off guard. Most guys I have seen who are not accustomed to such things do go down, really quickly like a house of cards.

    Is it the d3adly, no, but it is a viable strategy for women to have in their arsenal.
  7. Severe is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2007 3:04am


     Style: Muay Thai, RBSD Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cymro
    **** like this absolutely disgusts me.

    People who teach **** like this do women an incredible disservice by giving them a false sense of security in addition to the idea that there's a quick, easy way to deal with an attacker.

    I'm 6'3" 240lbs. I've been training most of my life. I worked as a bouncer for years. Sometimes it's hard for me to deal with your average drunk asshole. What the hell is someone going to do with the "7 most effective self defense techniques" after reading the book once? We had a women's self defense program at my Uni. I knew the instructer casually. Your average thug would have taken her apart.

    When the hell will people get serious about their own safety?
    So by your experience, there is NO hope at all for women?

    if you cant handle yourself, no woman can. but lets get serious... how, by ensuring all woman have lube on them so the rape wont hurt as much? the 7 most effective ..blah blah... may be utter ****, but any confidence has to be better than submission. may be they need tai chi
  8. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2007 7:39pm


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It seems to me that we're missing what may be more of a strategic than a tactical decision on the woman's part. "I'd just hit her" is in fact valid and possible. Now she's knocked out. If the attacker can't get re-aroused before he thinks she's going to wake up, maybe he stomps her head in or strangles her to death or finds a knife and cuts her throat. He'd probably think she deserved it for "teasing" him like that.
    This is a really shitty thing for me to say, but is it better for the woman to resist in a not-entirely-effective manner and enrage an attacker into killing or maiming her who might have, I shudder to say, "just" raped her and left? Sometimes you don't win. You just try to lose a bit less.
  9. Lane is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 3:34am


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Effective self defense? Work out, develop strength and stamina, stay in brightly-lit areas, travel with groups wherever possible, be aware of your surroundings, and run like hell. If you've got to fight, stick with simple -- punches to the face, pushing them away, and if possible, go for painful targets like the genitals. Don't try to grab or hold on -- that's NOT what you want to do. Hit and use the ensuing time to GET THE **** AWAY FROM THERE.

    Seriously. You can't do any more than that unless you train to fight, but that's not "self-defense." At the point where you're actively engaging in the fight with the other person, you're fighting. Self-defense means ending up alive, and the best way to do that... is to run the **** away. Get to your car, get in, lock the doors, and drive away. Call 911 and report an assault.

    Man or woman, doesn't matter. There's no special "technique" that will save you. Physical fitness and awareness of where you are and what's around are the best ways to prepare.
    --
    L.
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