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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 2:51pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    No, they don't.

    But if they ask, and you say, "Sure, officer, go right ahead," it gives your lawyer a whole lot less to work with in court.

    Only a small issue, regardless. When you've already been nabbed for an arrestable crime, the only thing of consequence protesting a search will get you is either a resisting arrest charge or your lawyer blowing another hour's worth of your money arguing a lost cause. :smile: (Trunk searches are a little murkier.)

    No licence and no registration + whatever dumb infraction got him stopped = He's fucked, regardless. Whatever else they find - regardless of consent - determines how far up the ass he takes it.

    Like my sister said ...
  2. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 2:53pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just another reason to keep your **** in order.
  3. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 2:55pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Sorry, the police do not need your consent or a warrant to search your car.
    They do need probable cause though. Which in this guy's case, they would have done an inventory to tow after arresting him for DUS or No OL.

    Consent wipes out the 4th amendment issues.

    I can not speak to other jurisdictions, but in mine, if a police officer has no probable cause to search, they have to first tell the person they are free to leave before asking to search. This is because consent has to be voluntary, and when a police officer orders you to stop, that whole thing is done involuntarily. So first the stop must end before free voluntary consent can be given.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  4. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 3:01pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's the way it is here, except the don't have to tell you that you're free to leave.
  5. justapix is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 3:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by justapix
    ....
    After which I made the mistake when asked "mind if I look in your car" replying yes...(never have been in any trouble with the law before to know better, my friends laughed at me though when I told them this part...)
    ....11

    **** didn't notice that I had put yes. This is what I meant to write:

    When the police officer asked "mind if I look in your car" I said no... Not realizing I had anything in my car to get me in any more trouble.


    I am just frustrated with this situation, because neither I nor anyone I know that has come in contact with the replica tanto would interpret it as a weapon.
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 3:17pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    Consent wipes out the 4th amendment issues.
    Only for searching compartments and anything wrapped. "Plain view" pretty much wipes out everything else.

    A police officer can order you to get out of the car for "safety reasons". So, unless you are climbing out of the sunroof, once you open the door, it's quite amusing what is now considered "in plain view."

    Yes, it varies a bit, state by state. But, keep in mind, with very few exceptions, any valid traffic infraction where you would normally be given a ticket can be construed as an arrestable offense and thus, probable cause can be found. You also need to consider driving is a privilege, not a right. It makes a big difference under the law.


    Once again, like my sister said ... :smile:


    Edit: Now that I thought about it, it might be prudent to persue whether the stop was valid. If it wasn't this would negate everything. At a minimum, it's another avenue to argue.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 4/12/2006 3:24pm at .
  7. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 3:36pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Only for searching compartments and anything wrapped. "Plain view" pretty much wipes out everything else.

    A police officer can order you to get out of the car for "safety reasons". So, unless you are climbing out of the sunroof, once you open the door, it's quite amusing what is now considered "in plain view."

    Yes, it varies a bit, state by state. But, keep in mind, with very few exceptions, any valid traffic infraction where you would normally be given a ticket can be construed as an arrestable offense and thus, probable cause can be found. You also need to consider driving is a privilege, not a right. It makes a big difference under the law.


    Once again, like my sister said ... :smile:


    Edit: Now that I thought about it, it might be prudent to persue whether the stop was valid. If it wasn't this would negate everything. At a minimum, it's another avenue to argue.
    He had expired plates, the stop was valid.

    If it is in "plain view" it wasn't obtained or realized through a search, therefore the 4th amendment was not invoked. So you see, plain view does not wipe out the 4th amendment because it does not concern it.

    Also, we need not forget about the automobile exception to the 4th amendment. You are not entitled to the same degree of privacy as you would enjoy in your home.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 4:01pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    He had expired plates, the stop was valid.
    Good point.


    Still, I don't know the specifics of the State or the particular jurisdiction he was stopped in, but this is not always cut and dry. Especially in a Podunk-ville, it is sometimes not easy for an officer to determine if the plate is expired without a computer car unless he/she is holding the registration documentation - which means the officer needs another reason to stop the car. (Of course, there is ALWAYS a reason which can be found.)


    Regardless, Don Gwinn is right on the money: Lawyer!
  9. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 4:06pm

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     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Still, I don't know the specifics of the State or the particular jurisdiction he was stopped in, but this is not always cut and dry. Especially in a Podunk-ville, it is sometimes not easy for an officer to determine if the plate is expired without a computer car unless he/she is holding the registration documentation - which means the officer needs another reason to stop the car. (Of course, there is ALWAYS a reason which can be found.)
    I suspect that the officer saw an outdated registration sticker on the plates while behind him and decided to stop him. Those things are color coded, so it's easy to see.

    But yeah, it's lawyer time, and one shouldn't be talking about the case with anyone but their lawyer.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  10. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 4:13pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Mantis
    I suspect that the officer saw an outdated registration sticker on the plates while behind him and decided to stop him. Those things are color coded, so it's easy to see.
    I don't know about the state he's in, but some states don't have the sticker (NY, for example).
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