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  1. Mr. Jones is offline
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    resident sick ****

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2006 10:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley T
    alright, alright. I've had enough. I guess I should've started out this thread with a little background about myself other than just saying I was new.

    Alot of bullshido users switched from "bullshido" to more "conventionally accepted as sound and useful" martial arts, and I guess I'm no exception. As horribly ashamed as I am to admit it, I once was an aikidoka. I started when I was 15 and quit at 19 which is younger than alot of aikidoka so my "dojo" embraced me openly because I had "seen the light" at such a young age.

    As a result, I've travelled to alot of seminars and trained with alot of prominent aikido "masters". I've personally taken ukemi for Chiba-sensei, Toyota Fumio, Keith Moore (who was a 5th dan under Toyota sensei who was an uchi-deshi to Ueshiba himself, 1 of 7 I believe), and trained with many many other prominent aikidoka at seminars at my own school and other seminars in places like chicago.

    At the time of my training, My dojo was affiliated with the now nearly defunct AAA (you guessed it, aikido association of america), however, we also had strong ties to Saito Sensei in Florida, who was a member of USAF, which I think now may be called ASU, it's been a few years now, so I don't really know now.

    With that out of the way, I'm going to say it loud, and say it proud, aikido sucks. I'm so tired of this "yeah, aikido doesn't suck, but MY aikido doesn't suck." the only way aikido is going to not suck is if you teach something else inside and then call it aikido. All aikido is basically the same. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be aikido. It's the same thing with BJJ, Judo, shotokan, Muay Thai, and all other arts. There may be different "flavors" but when it comes down to it they all work on the same principles and ideas.

    Your aikido is not secret
    Your aikido is not special
    Your aikido is the same all-singing all-dancing crap of the martial arts world that everyone else's is.

    Just because your 95th dan instructor is "ranked in judo" or chin-na, or hung gar, or flying monkeyshit style or whatever does not change the fact that your aikido sucks for self-defense.

    In my experiences, people talk about hard or soft aikido. Chiba sensei in particular is known for his hard aikido, but in reality the only thing that makes his aikido hard is what his ukes stand there and allow him to do to them. I took ukemi for him and I had heard horror stories about broken collarbones and hard falls, but in aikido the uke has just as much control over what's going on as tori or nage does. Chiba tried to slam my shoulder, sure, tried to nail me in the ribs, fine, but at that point I was 18 and in great shape, all I had to do to stop him was put a hand over the spot he wanted to hit or shift a little because aikido leaves a metric ****-ton of space between attacker and the guy who takes the falls that it's just ridiculous, so I never had any problems.

    Hey, don't get me wrong, I can't blame you for liking/being drawn toward aikido, I drank the kool-aid for 4 years. But when it comes down to it, from a realistic standpoint, it's bullshit. Anybody with any sense is going to just yank their arm back when you go do things like kote-gaeshi, or when you pivot to try and take the arm over on standing ikkyo/nikkyo, whatever. I will concede that sankyo has very limited usefulness, Yonkyo is total ****, and gokkyo is worthless also. I think that covers the five basic pins.

    Aikido is hopelessly trashed. Even if they put in live training, the techniques would work maybe 1/100 times, it was invented by a guy who was arguably senile, and surrounded by a bunch of guys who mistook his senility for some sort of martial genius.

    I'm sorry if I'm offending your grandmaster... wait.. no I'm not. I'm beyond the point where I'll respect any guy with a weird last name (or a normal one for that matter) and a big ole blackbelt around his waste just because he claims to be a martial arts master and has "dedicated years of his life to the study of XXX art." In a way, I can admire that dedication, but what I can't admire is self-delusion over the effectiveness over a flawed and archaic art.

    And for the record, Chiba is a raging dick. If I ever saw him on the mat again I'd double leg him and armbar the piss out of him, but aside from him most aikidoka that I've met have been really nice people with really good intentions, so it isn't as if I'm on some crusade to wreck aikido's untarnished reputation. The art sort of does that on it's own.
    You're no Goju Joe but you make some good points. Tomiki guys train in an alive manner but it's still basically Aikido and it shares many of it's problems. Many people in Aikido worshipo these old Japanese men like they are demi gods. Do you know where I can find more about this legendary Chiba? Don't worry about offending people of other arts this is bullshido you're allowed to call people on stuff. If I ever go to Chicago I'll have to visit an Aikido dojo there. I keep hearing stories about Chicago schools on bullshido.
  2. Bradley T is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2006 11:30pm


     Style: MT, Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    You're no Goju Joe but you make some good points. Tomiki guys train in an alive manner but it's still basically Aikido and it shares many of it's problems. Many people in Aikido worshipo these old Japanese men like they are demi gods. Do you know where I can find more about this legendary Chiba? Don't worry about offending people of other arts this is bullshido you're allowed to call people on stuff. If I ever go to Chicago I'll have to visit an Aikido dojo there. I keep hearing stories about Chicago schools on bullshido.
    I can't find anything but an interview with kazuo chiba. here's a link to that if you'd like.

    http://omlc.ogi.edu/aikido/talk/others/chiba.html

    You can find this interview posted on aikiweb too, I think. It's full of pretty ridiculous claims and unverifiable stories from Chiba Sensei himself. Stuff about two german wrestlers from argentina coming over and decimating all of the judoka at kodokan judo dojo in japan (I'm sure alot of people are familiar with Kodokan Judo and it's legitimacy) only to be decimated easily with Tohei sensei's aikido and other such ridiculous nonsense. It wreaks of the usual bullshido, fantastically undocumented challenges, larger than life quasi deathmatches, etc, etc..
  3. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 1:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    You're no Goju Joe but you make some good points.
    True, but then really who is?

    Seriously, an Aikikai dojo opened down the street from where I train .

    I thought "this is great" I can do some Aikido cross training again.

    I did one class and the Aikikai made my previous Yoshinkai Aikido experience look like hardcore NHB training in comparison (maybe it was just that Aikikai place sucked more than usual.)

    One thing though where I train now we do some "alive" knife training, and by that I mean the attacker takes a Rubber knife and does his best to stab or slash the other guy, and there something about a knife that seems to lead most people into over commited attacks and I always fall back on my Aikido when we do that and find it works best.

    Having said that, knife defense is a tricky subject as most stabings occur in crowded situations, where you can't clearly see who is doing what and most stabing victims in street fights are stabed in the back, so I feel its not something you can really rely on and should form a small part of training.

    Anyways Aikido can be a lot of fun - like ballroom dancing.
  4. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 1:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley T
    I can't find anything but an interview with kazuo chiba. here's a link to that if you'd like.

    http://omlc.ogi.edu/aikido/talk/others/chiba.html

    I just read this. The most interesting bits are when he describes situations in which he defends himself.

    He blocks knifes using downward sweeping blocks, which is more traditional karate than Aikido, and later takes a guy out with an O'Soto Geri which is more jiu-jitsu than Aikido. It seems that his sucess stories (if true) don't seem to use much Aikido.

    He also talks about people at the Hombu (Aikido) Dojo practicing judo and how many cross trained.

    Once again all this shows that the original intent of Aikido was that you were to already have a background and experience in some sort alive and competative training.
  5. FredGarvinMP is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 7:19am


     Style: Koei-Kan, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    Since you didn't reply it shows that the comments you made were full of ****. The best place you can find? Where are you located? If you don't want to post the area you live in you can pm me instead. Just because you enjoy it doesn't change Aikkikai's effectiveness.

    One more thing I really don't want you to ignore. Kisshomaru watered down Aikido to make it more available to the public. That organization he founded is called the Aikkikai. So enjoy your watered down martial art Aikkikai. According to the Aikkikai: Aikido is about harmonizing with the opponent and Aikido has no competition because it's too dangerous.
    OK. I haven't looked through your 700+ posts of drivel about getting booted off o Aikiweb, but I do remember you saying that you're 19 and you have about 3 months of actual Aikido training before your idiotic sensei booted you out. Please be so kind as to restate your credentials because you have got to be one of the biggest talkers on this board right now. PM you so you can tell someone what a good school is? Where the **** does this knowledge come from? I haven't done it since I came to this board, but you are getting really close to my first STFU.

    Yes. You are correct that K. watered things down and paid more attention to the "spiritual" aspects, but the whole "we don't compete because we're too deadly is wrong. The reasonong, as explained to me, is that it was in an effort to eliminate the breeding of attitudes and the devisiveness that egos can bring into the dojo, i.e. cultivate the harmony crap. No one sat down and said: "We are way too effective now. We had better stay away from people or we might kill them."
  6. FredGarvinMP is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 7:21am


     Style: Koei-Kan, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless Ukemi
    I'm in NY and the dojo is always open since I got a key. Visitors are always welcome.
    Where in NY? Any chance of being in the Long Island area?
  7. Fearless Ukemi is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 7:37am


     Style: JJ of the B variety

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    I just read this. The most interesting bits are when he describes situations in which he defends himself.

    He blocks knifes using downward sweeping blocks, which is more traditional karate than Aikido, and later takes a guy out with an O'Soto Geri which is more jiu-jitsu than Aikido. It seems that his sucess stories (if true) don't seem to use much Aikido.

    He also talks about people at the Hombu (Aikido) Dojo practicing judo and how many cross trained.

    Once again all this shows that the original intent of Aikido was that you were to already have a background and experience in some sort alive and competative training.
    Which was my original point that got taken out of context by certin people.
    Last edited by Fearless Ukemi; 4/15/2006 7:41am at .
  8. Fearless Ukemi is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 7:41am


     Style: JJ of the B variety

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FredGarvinMP
    Where in NY? Any chance of being in the Long Island area?
    I'm upsate in the Capital District. On the weekend of April 29th and 30th, we will be doing a seminar at Harvard University.
  9. FredGarvinMP is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 9:37am


     Style: Koei-Kan, Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless Ukemi
    I'm upsate in the Capital District. On the weekend of April 29th and 30th, we will be doing a seminar at Harvard University.
    Bummer. I get a chance to get back to the dojo on LI every six months or so. I would have looked you up.
  10. Fearless Ukemi is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2006 1:52pm


     Style: JJ of the B variety

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Something I thought I would share with those of you who insist aikido is worthless:

    I was rolling in my jiu jitsu class today with a corrections officer at Albany County Jail. He said at his academy, the vast majority of takedowns they teach are wrist takedowns derived from aikido.

    Anyone wish to claim the Albany Police Department is "full of ****"?
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