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  1. jwinch2 is offline

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    Jan 2005
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    Texas
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    397

    Posted On:
    4/11/2006 2:50am


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have studied JJJ and currently am training in both BJJ and Shotokan... The JJJ was not hard on my back but very tough on my wrists and elbows due to the large amount of small joint manipulations that most ryu contain. As for randori, I have never seen a JJJ school that does not include large amounts of it, especially as you gain in belt rank. In addition, newaza is practiced, albeit in a somewhat different manner than BJJ or Judo.

    In shotokan, the deep stances will annoy you early on as you will probably feel rooted to the floor. At least that is how my first few classes have felt to me! When I watch the seniors spar, with pretty heavy contact, and do bag work, i do not notice this same rooted feeling so i am assuming it goes away as one improves.

    As noted earlier, either art will improve your chances against the typical joe asshole that you might come up against. You would probably improve more quickly in the very short term by training in MT and BJJ rather than Shotokan and JJJ or Judo but that does not mean you cannot acheive the same results in those arts. Just that you take a different path to get there.

    The bottom line for me, were i in your situation, would be as follows... Which art can I see myself sticking with. Which one can found a "core" art that, should I desire to train other arts later on in life, would allow me to integrate them effectively. Which setting do I feel the most comfortable in? If you like the people you will be training with, it is far easier to stick with it than if you don't. The art will get you in the door and to the first few weeks of classes. If, after that time you have not started to develop a raport with the students and instructors, you will not stick around no matter how perfect the art is for you...

    Good luck!
  2. Sophist is offline
    Sophist's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Edinburgh
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2006 5:51am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2
    I have studied JJJ and currently am training in both BJJ and Shotokan... The JJJ was not hard on my back but very tough on my wrists and elbows due to the large amount of small joint manipulations that most ryu contain. As for randori, I have never seen a JJJ school that does not include large amounts of it, especially as you gain in belt rank. In addition, newaza is practiced, albeit in a somewhat different manner than BJJ or Judo.
    I've seen a plentiful number of JJJ schools which do not include regular randori and stick throughout to drills with predetermined winners; I changed from training with one of them to judo. And yes, there were lots of standing joint manipulations in that JJJ dojo, most of which were almost useless against resisting opposition.

    Of the three arts mentioned, the one most likely to provide fighting skill is judo - most JJJ dojos are heavy on uke-tori drills and light on resistance. However, both judo and JJJ may **** with your back, Jason, so I'd visit a doctor before you consider either. The same would go for BJJ, as getting stacked heavily in guard is likely to be less than good for a damaged back.

    The Shotokan dojos I've run into over here in the U.K. haven't impressed me at all - their "resistance" is all point sparring tag and nothing more. I'm sure some Shotokan dojos train full contact, but they don't seem to be common from what I know of the art. By all means check Shotokan out, but prepare to be disappointed.
  3. Ryno is offline

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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2006 2:30pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just watch the classes.

    There's good and bad Shotokan, good and bad JJJ. JJJ schools seem very diverse. Some just do standing joint locks all day. Others, like the club that I train at throw like Judo, and do tons of ground work and randori. We actually do very little standing joint locks. Technically it is in the system, but in the 8 months that I've been going, I've seen the instructor show standing joint locks maybe twice, and that was just in passing. Then he'd say that you're better off taking the guy down and getting postion before trying a lock or choke.

    There's just no telling until you watch them.
  4. jwinch2 is offline

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    Texas
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    Posted On:
    4/11/2006 2:50pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ryno and Sophist both make good points...

    The JJJ school I trained at did a newaza class one day per week with one day usually spent on throws and one for various joint manipulations. I enjoyed the format a great deal but alas, my elbows could not deal with the joint locks, more specifically the rotations...
  5. G-G-G Ghost! is offline

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    Nov 2005
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    Canberra, Australia
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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 7:55am


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're reading this, I fixed my posting-problem
  6. G-G-G Ghost! is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 7:57am


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're reading this I fixed my posting problem
  7. G-G-G Ghost! is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 7:57am


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow looks like I fixed it
  8. sweats is online now

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    Jul 2005
    Location
    Indiana
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    248

    Posted On:
    4/12/2006 8:44pm


     Style: Shotokan & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shotokan usually is pretty bad. I'd say the odds of any given shotokan school being good is probably about 10 to 1. It's been watered down into kiddie krotty for decades now. I trained in it pretty regularly from ages 9 to 18 and then off and on from 18-22 while I was in college. It's about as rigid and conformist as a style can get.

    There are some pluses, maybe just one really, a lot of emphasis was put on generating power. Some of those guys could really hit and it hurt like hell, but it leaves out a lot of crucial variables. One of the big ones was mobility, someone mentioned earlier a rooted feeling in those deep stances. It doesn't really go away at the higher levels, people usually just figure out for themselves that they can't have their front knee bent at 90 degrees and still be able to move.

    Then there is all the usual karate b.s. : katas, blocks that would never work, lots of bowing, Japanese words, "sparring" that was just pre-arranged anyway, etc. Bottom line, it got me interested in Martial Arts, helped me grow out of the pudgy little porker I was at 9, and I did meet some nice people along the way. However, did it make me a better fighter? Maybe a little, but probably not.

    JJJ, I don't know too much about. I saw a couple demos which mostly looked like fat guys wristlocking people with pony tails that grabbed their lapels. I do BJJ now and I don't want to get into the BJJ vs. Judo vs Sambo vs Submission Wrestling. To me, it's fun and I have access to it right now. My advice is do what you think is the most fun. That's really what it comes down to for most people, myself included.
  9. Overlord is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jun 2006
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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 7:35pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: karate & judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's been send in here already, but try them both. If you have A LOT of time and the instruction is good, train both. If you have limited time, only do one. Don't dilute the training just to say you study both. It'll take you twice as long to be effective.

    The MT and TKD experience may help you learn some of the Shotokan basics quicker, but could create some issues as you progress. Depending on your previous training and the expectations of the instructors, the stances and linear nature of the movements may force you to change what you have already ingrained into your body (for better or worse).

    The Jujitsu could be hard on your back, but if you do the right strength training and learn the right way to fall it shouldn't be a problem.
  10. JohnnyFive is offline

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    Dec 2003
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    North Carolina
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    657

    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 10:06pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It really depends on where your back problems are coming from. I have had a herniated L4/L5 since before I started Judo, and I have been doing it for four years, no complaints except for once when they wanted me to do some twisty sort of ne-waza thing.

    Besides, everybody knows Judo doesn't give you back problems, it gives you knee and shoulder problems.
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