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  1. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2007 1:58pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Agreed I get tired of being the parent for other people's children. As an educator and a martial arts instructor I do not believe it is my job to teach your children morals and right and wrong. That's your job man up and get it done. I only have a shodan in parenthood (13yearold son) maybe a brown belt since its a boy. But I will dammed if someone should have to teach my boy morals and responsiblity. That's my job and I take it seriously. Nothing makes me prouder than when people say "Wow what a great child you have there. He is so polite." Job done I can retire and live happily and hope the munckin gets a better job than his old man. (Cause Daddy wants a good retirement home). Oh and BTW if you wait to be a parent when they are 5 or 8 or 13 your too late. Parenting starts from day one get with it. Stop passing the buck.[/rant off]

    My job as an educator is to teach your child technical skills needed to survive in life. My job as an MA instructor is to develop you child's physical and mental skills in an athletic endeavor. I will reinforce moral and values you have at home but thats it.

    Wola-do hmm. Cool charismatic guy with an accent, a BB and a syllabus moves to town and opens up shop. That's not enough people. A series of red flags go off when we see certian things posted.

    When someone states they have trained in more than 2 or 3 artforms they are full of it. They may have been to clinics spent time in a few classes or had a friend that showed them some cool stuff. This by no means equals training in a martial art. Alot of people have "trained" in several martial arts but few can say they are proficent enough to teach them all.

    He was the Olympic coach and special forces trainer. This doesn't match up. Sport fighting and killing people with guns and knives are not even in the same ballpark its not even the same game.

    Formation of a style or art form and self promotion and promotion of others in the made up artform. I wish parents would do some research on the number of respected national and international martial arts organizations and the services they supply the members. Plus the time and effort many, many people put into training in MA. The question you should be asking yourself is why is he not part of an organization.

    This is more of a personal pet peeve for me. When someone adds Judo into the mix of a list of artforms I will bank on them being full of it 99% of the time. Judo is a difficult and serious MA and takes years and I mean years to get the basics down. YEARS of training in just Judo. I devoted the last 10 years of my life to being a better Judo player and I am getting tired of people tagging it on as if they can pick it up in a day or two.
  2. Art is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 1:24pm


     Style: TKD, wrestling, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, apolgizes for not posting this sooner. I've been exceptionally busy these last couple days. The following is the first of the email correspondance I've had with the Wola-do group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Art . . . original email
    Dear Grand-Master Hukporti, Aloedzi Wolasime,

    I am writing to hopefully clear up some confusion regarding the creation of
    Wola-Do and the influence of your previous training. First off I would like to
    say I am not on a witch hunt at all which is something that may be a typical
    reaction when bullshido.net becomes involved in researching arts, history,
    peoples, and claims. My only interest is specifically a claim that a student of
    yours posted in the thread linked here.
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1354612&postcount=39

    I am a big fan of Taekwondo and the Olympic sport of and have been an active
    competitor for close to the last decade, and it is through this passion of mine
    that I take interest in the claim of the above post.

    My questions are fairly straight forward and hopefully easy for you to answer.
    1) In what year(s) where you Captain of the Togo olympic squad? (quite an
    accomplishment so congrats)
    2) Has the Togo olympic squad competed at the olympics or is it just a training
    squad?
    3) Do you have a Kukkiwon number that could be verified.

    Thank you sir, I would visit you to come discuss this matter but I am a couple
    thousand miles away and I really can't justify a road trip to ask three
    questions. Best of luck with your school.

    Sincerely

    -Dave
    AKA Bullshido.net user Art.
    I also received permission to post our conversation so I'll copy/paste
    Quote Originally Posted by DEDE KPODAR <aloedzi@msn.com>
    first reply
    Dear Mr. ***Name removed***,

    Thank you for your time and e-mail. I appreciate it.
    I was also a big fan of Taekwon-Do. this are the answer to your questions.
    1- I was the captain of the team from 1996 to 1998
    2- No we did not compete because in the last minute our technical director Malam Oumarou Seidou 5th Dan and our president Diogo always say that the govement say that there is no money to support us. but we competed in some tournament in the West-Africa area. but by myself I travel and compited in diffeerent States in the USA.
    3- I pay the money to our national federation asked us but never get my 1, 2 Dan Kukiwon that is why I was disappointed( the thing is that in my hometown you can't sue any one) with my hometown TKD WTF and but at the same time I practice ITF and with with the ITF I received my international certificate from the founder general Choi Hong Hi. This mean that I don't have a kukiwon certificate.
    I have a question for you: Did you know the name of the founder of Taekwon-Do? if yes what kind of Martial Art did he use to practice beford inventing Taekwon-Do? he's Rank in those style. I will appreciate if you can find me the answer.

    I past some of my certification from Taekwon-Do for you to see.
    If you need more information just don't hesitate to write me. I will be waiting for your mail
    There are some pictures that he sent me as well. I will post them when I have a quick minute. As well there is another series of emails. I'll let ya'll discuss this if you want but I don't think I'll comment on it as I don't want any sort of bias influencing the discussion. One thing I will note is that he has been fairly forthcoming with answering questions. Another note is that I don't believe his first language is english so if you can get around the broken typing then all the better.
  3. ironlurker is offline
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    How do Chameleon Circuit?

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 1:52pm


     Style: jkd

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=Art]
    I also received permission to post our conversation so I'll copy/paste
    /quote]

    Regarding Olympic TKD, just some background from the Billy Blanks thread.

    Following the recognition of the WTF by the International Olympic Committee in 1980, Taekwondo was staged at the Olympics in Seoul in 1988 and in Barcelona in 1992 as demonstration sport. In 1994, at the Paris 103rd IOC Session, Taekwondo was adopted as an official program of the Sydney 2000 Olympics. Taekwondo was confirmed as an official sport of the 2004 Athens Olympic Games and 2008 Beijing Olympic Games.

    So if he was captain, he was captain of a demo team at best. People often say they coached/were on the Olympic team, when they were on their own national team, so that might be something to check out as well. I haven't read the whole thread, but TKD/Karate and Olympic together (more so Karate then TKD, granted) always needs to raise a flag.
    Oh and his story:
    2- No we did not compete because in the last minute our technical director Malam Oumarou Seidou 5th Dan and our president Diogo always say that the govement say that there is no money to support us. but we competed in some tournament in the West-Africa area. but by myself I travel and compited in diffeerent States in the USA.
    Looks suspicious to me on two counts. First of all, he or his team could not have competed in Olympic TKD before this century. Some of this stuff is in the Billy Blanks thread as well, to sum it up there's very likely some twistage going on (i.e. "well TKD was scheduled to become an Olympic sport, and I was coaching the national team, so I was basically coaching the Olympic team"). Plus, no offense to anyone from Togo, but I wonder how strict/supervised their programs are, so in fact there may be even more room for obfuscation.
    Finally, the "in the last minute" shite should raise a big flag as well. Why? He couldn't have not competed in the Olympics because the team wasn't funded at the last minute- he couldn't have competed in the Olympics because TKD was not an official sport in 1996. Furthermore, the Olympics aren't exactly like Billy Bob's Annual Bar-B-Q and Krotty Toornyment , where you show up with a 20 bill and you're in, so anyone's "last minute" claims need to be looked at.
    Yes I ended with a preposition.
  4. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 2:34pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He mentions Choi's name then askes who invented TKD. I hope he was being sarcastic. Maybe he didn't read that part of the "Great TKD Book" by Choi.

    Sigh.
  5. Art is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 3:19pm


     Style: TKD, wrestling, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quick message before I have to run off again. Here are the pictures that accompanied the first email. Hope the attachments work and they aren't to big or small to see.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  6. TheBigSwede is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 3:54pm


     Style: Judo + sports ju-jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by yaaaaaaaaargh!!
    The uniforms are Taekwondo ITF doboks with a new logo on. Everything is the same: the black borders on the jacket for 1 Dan and up, and the stripes on the sides for 4 Dan and above (I think).
    Check out the black guy! He does wear magic pants doesn't he, albeit with an exotic "African" twist.

    My irony doesn't quite shine through here; calling something "African" is about as specific as calling it "European"; both are continents with dozens of separate countries...
  7. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 3:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Correct me if I'm wrong, because those are difficult to read. What we have here is:

    1. A Certificate of Participation at a WTF TKD tournament called "Coupe de Togo" (Togo Cup?)

    2. A certificate attesting that Hukporti taught Tae Kwon Do to Togo's "Regiment Commando de la Garde Presidentielle" (Presidential Guard Regiment?)


    So, if we've learned nothing else, we know this: Don't try to assassinate the President of Togo on horseback, because his guard will straight up kick you right off that horse.
    *********************************************
  8. Don Gwinn is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 4:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK, the first result on Google for "Togo Olympic Team" is this:

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...6/ai_n14322412

    . . . . . so, clearly the Togo Olympic program can be somewhat chaotic. Who knows?

    Olympic Games officials to Togo team: Please call home
    Independent, The (London), Aug 16, 2000 by Kathy Marks in Sydney


    AUSTRALIA IS searching high and low for Togo's Olympic team - two athletes and four officials - who have gone missing on their way to a pre-Games training camp in Adelaide. The team representing the tiny west African state was supposed to arrive nearly a fortnight ago.

    Australian Olympic Committee (AOC) officials have tried in vain to contact them by telephone, fax and e-mail. The AOC's Olympic training co-ordinator, Clive Lee, said yesterday he hoped they would turn up in Australia before the Games begin in Sydney on 15 September. But he added: "There's a distinct possibility the Togo team won't make it."
    *********************************************
  9. Art is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 5:39pm


     Style: TKD, wrestling, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting Don, I actually haven't tried googling anything regarding Togo olympic team in specifics, but here is what I can say. Togo became a member of the African Taekwondo Organization, who is the member of the WTF, in 1996. Evidence from the WTF website . . . www.wtf.org under members.

    The country itself is 3rd world and has had a history of violence and is in a current state of transition into a democracy right now from the last many decades of dictatorship. From this one could infer that there is corruption within all areas of the country, but how that relates to taekwondo claims is anybodies guess. Check out wikipedia for more specifics and the cia.gov website (google brought that up).

    One thing I will note however is that olympic teams are teams prior to olympics. This is not in defense of our Wola-Do founder but for the above posters who are making date connections and calling Red Flags on this claims (devil's advocate I'm trying not to make any judgements). Olympic teams and squads are in training years in advance prior to olympic competition. Teams do have captains so the claim that he was captain between the years of '96-'98 should not be automatically jumped on despite the fact that none of those years were olympic years that TKD was involved.

    This can be evident as Calgary hosted an olympic training camp for womens international teams and also a good will tournament. I had the opportunity to train with the Korean women's team, which also had a captain as was introduced to us. 2006 was not a summer olympic year. Take that as what you may. (BTW I got my ass kicked)
  10. ironlurker is offline
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    How do Chameleon Circuit?

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2007 7:06pm


     Style: jkd

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The country itself is 3rd world and has had a history of violence and is in a current state of transition into a democracy right now from the last many decades of dictatorship. From this one could infer that there is corruption within all areas of the country, but how that relates to taekwondo claims is anybodies guess. (google brought that up)
    It means that, as Don's posts illustrate, it's extremely difficult to verify who is, and who is not, a present or past Olympic athlete from Togo. Does this mean he is lying? No, but it means that this claim doesn't do much to actively support his resume.

    Olympic teams and squads are in training years in advance prior to olympic competition. Teams do have captains so the claim that he was captain between the years of '96-'98 should not be automatically jumped on despite the fact that none of those years were olympic years that TKD was involved.
    Why can't he answer your question?
    2) Has the Togo olympic squad competed at the olympics or is it just a training
    squad?
    The Togo Olympic TKD team could not have competed in the Olympics between 1996 and 1998. Why was a story told instead that there were insufficient funds for the team to go?

    No we did not compete because in the last minute our technical director Malam Oumarou Seidou 5th Dan and our president Diogo always say that the govement say that there is no money to support us.
    Think about it. He's saying he didn't go to the Olympics to compete because there was no money, not because it wasn't an official sport or that he missed doing a demo.

    Also note, his student STV says "national olympic team". This shows, to me, that the person in question (at least STV) might not understand the distinction between an olympic team and a national team- there is a difference.
    Legitimate people who say that they were coaches of the US Olympic Karate team mean that they have actively coached in the IOCC USA center under sanction from NKFUSA. They do not say they competed in the Olympics, or missed competition due to a lack of funds, typhoon, attack by a ninja death squid etc.

    What federation was he a member of from 1996 to 1998? Do the relevant international federations of TKD have him listed as a national team coach in 1996? How many ITF/WTF dojangs are there in Togo? How many were there in 1996? From Don's post, it looks like the Olympic system in Togo is in a state of ruin. Saying if there was an olympic team I would have coached it is not the same as coaching an olympic team.

    I have no idea if this guy is a great guy, martial artist or what not. I stand by my comments that any -yes any, by anyone- claims of coaching or competing in Olympic TKD or Karate deserve careful scrutiny. Could he have coached at an Olympic training camp? Sure, but where did this happen? Which sanctioned camp, where? That should be an easy question to answer. But saying you didn't compete in the Olympics in 1996 because the Prez pulled the plus is BS, there's no way around it.


    the above posters who are making date connections and calling Red Flags on this claims
    You're assuming I don't know the difference between an Olympic training squad and competition in the Olympics, but I do. And I think that STV/this gentleman in question do not i.e. national olympic team. What was the sanctioning body, did one even exist in Togo, and which camp did he train at? You can talk about your experience at the Calgary training camp instantly off the top of your head, in contrast, why is this guy a mystery? A "red flag" doesn't mean "oh noz wola-do version of ashida kim fraud fraud", it means it's worth questioning.

    devil's advocate I'm trying not to make any judgements.
    Making judgements of <500 post users is encouraged on Bullshido, so starch up your dobok and feel free.

    edited for betterer grammar
    Last edited by ironlurker; 2/13/2007 7:32pm at .
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