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  1. #21
    Torakaka's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lights Out
    My heart is divided on this one.

    On one hand, it is true that a class based solely on technique oriented stuff (drills, heavy bag, pads, sparring, shdowboxing, and such) would probably be more productive, skill-wise.

    On the other hand, the conditioning part of the class forces me to do all those exercises either I don´t like or I don´t have the time to do, like bodyweight exercises, ab work, jump rope and *gasp* running.

    well if you're not dedicated to becoming a competitive athlete, that's a totally fine way to be spending class time. For me and Kat, we dedicate several hours a day to our training because we want to be competitive, so we spend our time doing conditioning and look for instruction and technical work when we have that available to us. If you actually desire a life outside of training and fighting (which we kinda don't) then doing conditioning during class time is fine for you.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm

  2. #22
    Anna Kovacs's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally i've always theorized that kata is something that a teacher can tell the class to do and then not actually have to teach much. It's almost like kata are purpose designed to just take up class time.

    I feel the same way about teachers that have you do a bazillion exercises.

    it's just a way to take up class time and give you a false sense of accomplishment.

  3. #23

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Yeh, i agree that it's helpful for people that don't have the drive to do that kind of work on their own.
    I spend the time I have spare for conditioning pumping iron like a man!!! (that is, saying that I lift double the weight that I actually lift)

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Personally i prefer to get my cardio primarily through sparring.
    Yeah, I don´t like to run, but the way I see it, if you´re training to fight, you should train to flee too, just in case.

    Also, certain things that helps your cardio are better performed under a instructor's supervision, like bag work or pad work.

    Of course, I´m not saying that you can´t/shouldn´t do those on your spare time too.

  4. #24

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't agree completely with Anna. Yes. It’s true that more things can be done besides doing forms (However I must say that we only practice them in my school perhaps 10 minutes out of every class. And there usually tough cardio exercise anyhow).They are a nice thing to do that says that you didn't spend all your time learning how to harm your fellow man in surprisingly efficient ways. And I can tell all my friends that I reached enlightenment and all that bullshit!!

    So long as your school does not become known solely for being East-coast Karate champions 10 years running. Then you’re OK


    Here is clip that looks very much like a fighting stance but is taught as a form.I'm not completely defending katas.Just that I feel they still have a place in schools.
    http://www.usoyama.com/movies/990508/kata1.mpg

  5. #25

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    well if you're not dedicated to becoming a competitive athlete, that's a totally fine way to be spending class time. For me and Kat, we dedicate several hours a day to our training because we want to be competitive, so we spend our time doing conditioning and look for instruction and technical work when we have that available to us. If you actually desire a life outside of training and fighting (which we kinda don't) then doing conditioning during class time is fine for you.
    Correct.

    The question is, how many students at a MA class (even those sport-oriented, like MT or kickboxing) really want to compete? Not many, so instructors, by default, aim the class towards the hobbists (such as myself).

    I guess that something similar happens with MA's which have katas, probably most hobbists, specially those who train at mcdojos (but not limited to those), expect katas, belts, fancy gis, patches and such...

  6. #26
    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher supporting member
    DAYoung's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    If your art contains kata, then it is necessary to know the kata as it is a moving syllabus.

    It is more important to have knowledge of and train in using the syllabus than just knowing it.
    Yep. Kata and bunkai are not replacements for real fighting - they are records, forms of conditioning and memorising, and methods of heightening mood and focus. In some styles, they are also forms of meditation.

    This does not mean that kata champions will be fighters (quite the opposite) - it means that fighters also doing kata might well have a broader and deeper knowledge of their style, and the various character benefits these are supposed to entail. I think Mas Oyama would be a good example of this, as well as Kano - both men whose styles are well-respected for their practical applications.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  7. #27

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That clip was crap.

    If you're just interested in becoming a fighter as quickly as possible, there are more efficient ways to go about it than Kata. I think that kata are a valuable tool in a longer training timeline, both mentally and physically.

    I don't like it when a lot of class time is devoted to kata practice. I can work them as much as I want on my own. I feel the same way about conditioning. I like to warm up in class, but my conditioning is on my own time by and large. The more of that sort of thing I take care of outside of class, the more my teacher can focus on, well, teaching me in class.

  8. #28
    Mr. Mantis's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Different styles have different ways of moving, different ways of kicking, punching, rooting, power generation, etc. These ways are preserved in the kata. The more you do work on something, the more you understand, the more skills you can make your own.

    The kata is the big picture of a style. It is the forest, as the techniques/combos are the trees.

    As far as the class time derail that's sprouted up, conditioning in class is good for beginners. The upper classes time would best be spent practicing for fighting, and learning new kata. Say a class is 3 hours, spar and drill with as many different people in class for 2 hours, have a cup of tea, and learn some new stuff for the last hour. Yeah, that'd be a good class.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

  9. #29
    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher supporting member
    DAYoung's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    it's just a way to take up class time and give you a false sense of accomplishment.
    I have only two words: Cynthia Rothrock.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  10. #30
    Cassius's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Yeh, i am not a big fan of class being primarily conditioning based either.
    The best conditioning in my opinion is just more rolling/randori/sparring.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

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