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  1. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 10:46pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    did you also keep in mind that Leung Ting had "journalists" sent to do a photo shoot with Cheung in traditional clothing, including the kung fu slippers, making Cheung change his normal clothing before the seminar started? those slippers made him slip on the floor. before you dismiss it as a lame excuse, obviously if they went through the trouble of setting that up, they knew to take advantage of it.
    He didn't slip, he lifted his knee and broke his own balance.

    Wait. 'Kung Fu' slippers? The Chinese practically invented polished hardwood floors, you'd think they'd choose to practice in something more practical.
    whatever Cheung did while on the ground was for defensive purposes. it was his first time in Germany, he was in the middle of a seminar, and he wasn't trying to hurt Boztepe and get into trouble where apparently you're arrested first and questions are asked later(as he was told). it was an awkward situation.
    As well as the aforementioned attempted kneeing and kicking, he also very clearly elbows Boztepe at the very beginning of the clip. Kinda flies in the face of your contention that he wasn't attacking huh? Are you going to address this point at all?
    and for a forum that's all about exposing "bullshido" because apparently you all know what a real fight is like, you think you can make any determination from that clip? the reason they didn't do the high and mighty grappling is because that's not what they do. how can you hold them accountable for not taking the mount and performing arm bars, etc., if that's not what they wanted to do in the first place?
    Hey guy, we know what a real fight looks like. A real fight looks like that, because that was a real fight. Get it? It looks nothing like wing chun. Get it? A real fight....

    And they were grappling, they were just **** at it.

    but maybe my explanation isn't good enough
    No it's not (because: see below). Are you going to provide any independant sources for anything you've said?
    i will defend my art
    Nut rider.
    Last edited by Lu Tze; 4/07/2006 11:03pm at .
  2. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 11:03pm

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    He didn't slip, he lifted his knee and broke his own balance.

    Wait. 'Kung Fu' slippers? The Chinese practically invented polished hardwood floors, you'd think they'd choose to practice in something more practical.
    As well as the aforementioned attempted kneeing and kicking, He also very clearly elbows Boztepe at the very beginning of the clip. Kinda flies in the face of your contention that he wasn't attacking huh? Are you going to address this point at all?
    Hey guy, a real fight looks like that. That was a real fight. Get it? It looks nothing like wing chun. Get it? A real fight....

    And they were grappling, they were just **** at it.

    No it's not (because: see below) Are you going to provide any independant sources for anything you've saidl?
    Nut rider.
    I read this with a Yorkshire accent in mind - great stuff (oh yes, and the content is good too).

    Again, if you're a great master of a style, but you don't look like a master of that style when you actually fight, what is the point in mastering it? Of course, there are other reasons for learning a Chinese art, but we're not arguing about those - we're arguing about Cheung fighting.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  3. DeadlyVenom7 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 11:58pm


     Style: Chinese martial arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    He didn't slip, he lifted his knee and broke his own balance.

    Wait. 'Kung Fu' slippers? The Chinese practically invented polished hardwood floors, you'd think they'd choose to practice in something more practical.
    As well as the aforementioned attempted kneeing and kicking, he also very clearly elbows Boztepe at the very beginning of the clip. Kinda flies in the face of your contention that he wasn't attacking huh? Are you going to address this point at all?
    Hey guy, we know what a real fight looks like. A real fight looks like that, because that was a real fight. Get it? It looks nothing like wing chun. Get it? A real fight....

    And they were grappling, they were just **** at it.

    No it's not (because: see below). Are you going to provide any independant sources for anything you've said?
    Nut rider.
    he lifted his knee and SLIPPED, and Boztepe took advantage of the momentum and tossed him. or you think he just threw himself on the floor? do you still not get it?

    i don't see an elbow. i looked and looked, and maybe i looked at the wrong part of the screen, but something that is very common knowledge is that Boztepe edited the video for his own purposes, and that there are different versions of the video available on the internet. how anyone can come to any decisive conclusions about Cheung's fighting ability from this video is beyond me.

    you consider that a "real fight?" i wish all fights were like that; it would be nice if they never went beyond the playground level and no one would get seriously hurt. but in the real world, "real fights" usually do a lot more damage. but all we have here is a guy setting up Cheung, putting him in a very awkward situation, slugging at him for about 10 seconds, doing absolutely no damage, then getting up and running away. we spar harder than that at my school. too bad you're not from my area. i hope to meet others here who are.
  4. DeadlyVenom7 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2006 12:02am


     Style: Chinese martial arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    I read this with a Yorkshire accent in mind - great stuff (oh yes, and the content is good too).

    Again, if you're a great master of a style, but you don't look like a master of that style when you actually fight, what is the point in mastering it? Of course, there are other reasons for learning a Chinese art, but we're not arguing about those - we're arguing about Cheung fighting.
    but actually we're talking about Cheung not fighting, and trying to get out of an awkward situation and away from an aggressive attacker. sorry he wasn't able to pull off the dim mak and gently knock Boztepe out with a touch of his finger.
  5. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2006 12:08am

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom7
    but actually we're talking about Cheung not fighting, and trying to get out of an awkward situation and away from an aggressive attacker. sorry he wasn't able to pull off the dim mak and gently knock Boztepe out with a touch of his finger.
    We are talking about Cheung's capacity, as a master, to fight like a master. Mastery is not just proficiency or competence - it is excellence. If Cheung does not display this mastery in a video, it casts doubt on his status. This, in turn, reflects badly on his style, as he is a leading exponent of it.
    Last edited by DAYoung; 4/08/2006 12:47am at .
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2006 12:30am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick
    OKay, just one thing: JKD is NOT based on Wing Chun. It had more basis in boxing and fencing than any other art.
    Chunner.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  7. War Wizard is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2006 1:01am


     Style: Judo - Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick
    OKay, just one thing: JKD is NOT based on Wing Chun. It had more basis in boxing and fencing than any other art.
    JKD always struck me as a philosophy rather than an actual art, so to say that it is based on anything is inaccurate. As far as this thread goes, JKD is definitely NOT Wing Chun.
  8. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2006 1:03am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman
    JKD always struck me as a philosophy rather than an actual art, so to say that it is based on anything is inaccurate. As far as this thread goes, JKD is definitely NOT Wing Chun.
    What he said. I thought it was fairly well documented that JKD is a philosophy of martial practice rather than a specific marftial art.
  9. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2006 1:08am

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom7
    whatever Cheung did while on the ground was for defensive purposes. it was his first time in Germany, he was in the middle of a seminar, and he wasn't trying to hurt Boztepe and get into trouble where apparently you're arrested first and questions are asked later(as he was told). it was an awkward situation.
    “In the case of a martial artist, his philosophy should be to try and make the best from the worst. If you should roll out of bed one day and not be feeling so good you should still try to make the best of that day.” – William Cheung
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  10. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2006 1:28am

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    What he said. I thought it was fairly well documented that JKD is a philosophy of martial practice rather than a specific marftial art.
    This must be right. If not, everything Lee wrote about styles is contradicted. Having said this, I suspect the 'art' element was precisely what he was getting at:

    “Art is the way to the absolute and to the essence of human life. The aim of art is not the one-sided promotion of spirit, soul and senses, but the opening of all human capacities – thought, feeling, will – to the life rhythm of the world of nature.”

    While technical skill and constant practice are essential, there are no easy rules or traditional formulas for truthful art, for truth “is living and, therefore, changing. […] When you see that, you will understand that this living thing is what you are.”
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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