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  1. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 7:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by twKoxinga
    Jackie Chan does Peking Opera, although I still say in comparison of both videos that the conditioning of the Peking Opera could probably allow the opera actor to kick the Wing Chun guy's ass
    I agree. Granted, he's only an actor, but he's in solid physical condition, and has some experience of street fighting (if his stories are to be believed). As his bodyguards and stunt team are often ex-fighters, I'm sure he would be in an excellent position to train for more brutal fighting. Of course, he's got some nasty injuries, but...
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  2. Gnosis is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 7:22pm


     Style: intuitive striker

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wing Chun practitioners are weird, I went to a place in Vancouver one time and the Sifu was hunched over like creeping around giggling to himself with one eye more open than the other.

    I told him I had a little experience with ju-jitsu and one of his students translated (he was chinese) and he said ju-jitsu wouldn't work on him because he had so much internal energy at which point he had me try to push down his arm, which was difficult and I was unable to do it. I tried to explain to him that in BJJ the whole body is used to create leverage (or so is my understanding) and then he asked me to push his leg down to demonstrate further power, i did and he stared into my eye and said 'NO NO NO NO' as if to demoralize me from the attempt.

    I saw one of his students in the background doing weird punches on a light bag, which i assumed had some purpose other than actually fighting someone ( I later learned from bullshido that these are called 'chain punches'). The sifu explained that you simply have to get in close, then he asked me to throw a punch and so i threw a straight lead at him snapping back about 6 inches from his face, he responded 'whoo-a' and widened his eyes, and then laughed and said something in Chinese with his students, then another student came up and the 3 of them kept telling me that I had to get in close.

    I didn't understand 'getting in close' seems how he was suprised by my strike even though he asked me to do it, i figured if this is the sifu and he is taken of guard by a 'long-fist' strike then there is something wrong with what he thinks combat is. Also I thought if i got in close enough to strike with a chain punch, then i would be in close enough to grapple.

    All in all his arguments as to the nature of his fighting system seemed to be rather artificial, limited, and overly abstract.

    The kwoon was called 'ving tsun' in Richmond B.C. above it was a karate place, and the kwoon itself was in the backroom of a computer repair store. I think the sifu's name was 'Leo Lit' or something...
  3. Shawarma is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 7:42pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do believe you're telling wee little white lies Mr. Gnosis.
  4. Gnosis is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 8:13pm


     Style: intuitive striker

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma
    I do believe you're telling wee little white lies Mr. Gnosis.
    So i take it you do wing chun? or im a noob and you feel in a dominant position? christ that is what happend when i went there, i gave the location and the name of the sifu, it might not be exactly down to the address but if your interested in going and seeing how this individual operates his art im pretty sure you could look into it yourself. Otherwise your just a fucking moron
  5. DeadlyVenom7 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 9:07pm


     Style: Chinese martial arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    I'm sorry, but you're either blind or are deliberately misrepresnting this clip.

    Cheung wasn't taken by suprise, at the start of the video both fighters are clinched, this is a pretty even start in my book.

    And he certainly was trying to fight back, at approx 2 seconds in he attempts to straight knee Boztepe, in fact it's the reason he was taken down. Why would such an experienced fighter put himself in such a vulnerable position as having one foot on the floor if he was just trying to defend? He also tries to kick Boztepe in the knee from the ground as the clip closes.

    As for their grappling, it was pathetic on both sides, so no wonder no effective blows were struck. Both fighters had ample chance to improve their position and didn't take them. Boztepe also had several opportunities to arm lock Cheung, effectively ending the fight (but they don't train that gay grappling stuff hey).
    No, I'd never heard of either of these guys before reading bullshido. I have no agenda, I just call what I see, and what I see here are two 'masters', people who've dedicated their lives to a combat art, fighting like children in a playground.

    Maybe my opinion would change with more background info and the full clip, but you've provided nothing more convincing than hearsay in the face of video evidence.
    if i'm blind then you're illiterate, but i'll say it again: the video was edited. it doesn't show how they got into the clinch, does it?
    did you also keep in mind that Leung Ting had "journalists" sent to do a photo shoot with Cheung in traditional clothing, including the kung fu slippers, making Cheung change his normal clothing before the seminar started? those slippers made him slip on the floor. before you dismiss it as a lame excuse, obviously if they went through the trouble of setting that up, they knew to take advantage of it.

    whatever Cheung did while on the ground was for defensive purposes. it was his first time in Germany, he was in the middle of a seminar, and he wasn't trying to hurt Boztepe and get into trouble where apparently you're arrested first and questions are asked later(as he was told). it was an awkward situation.

    and for a forum that's all about exposing "bullshido" because apparently you all know what a real fight is like, you think you can make any determination from that clip? the reason they didn't do the high and mighty grappling is because that's not what they do. how can you hold them accountable for not taking the mount and performing arm bars, etc., if that's not what they wanted to do in the first place? Boztepe just wanted to take advantage and swing at Cheung(and i know, i've personally seen his letters to Cheung), and then as soon as he did what he wanted to, got away and ran off with his cohorts. all Cheung needed to do to "win" is defend himself and not get hurt, and he was actually rather successful when you take everything into full consideration. as soon as the scuffle ended, he got up and finished the seminar unharmed.

    but maybe my explanation isn't good enough, and everything other people have said to vouch for Cheung's skills must be wrong, too. i hope any doubter lives near South Jersey because you can only really know by finding it out for yourself.

    also, i do want to point out that i am a "n00b" and probably going against the grain here. i will defend my art, though, but i do so honestly and humbly. if anything, i would hope more people can learn about good Wing Chun, come to my school, and make it a learning experience for both sides.
  6. Gnosis is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 10:14pm


     Style: intuitive striker

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom7
    if i'm blind then you're illiterate, but i'll say it again: the video was edited. it doesn't show how they got into the clinch, does it?
    did you also keep in mind that Leung Ting had "journalists" sent to do a photo shoot with Cheung in traditional clothing, including the kung fu slippers, making Cheung change his normal clothing before the seminar started? those slippers made him slip on the floor. before you dismiss it as a lame excuse, obviously if they went through the trouble of setting that up, they knew to take advantage of it.

    whatever Cheung did while on the ground was for defensive purposes. it was his first time in Germany, he was in the middle of a seminar, and he wasn't trying to hurt Boztepe and get into trouble where apparently you're arrested first and questions are asked later(as he was told). it was an awkward situation.

    and for a forum that's all about exposing "bullshido" because apparently you all know what a real fight is like, you think you can make any determination from that clip? the reason they didn't do the high and mighty grappling is because that's not what they do. how can you hold them accountable for not taking the mount and performing arm bars, etc., if that's not what they wanted to do in the first place? Boztepe just wanted to take advantage and swing at Cheung(and i know, i've personally seen his letters to Cheung), and then as soon as he did what he wanted to, got away and ran off with his cohorts. all Cheung needed to do to "win" is defend himself and not get hurt, and he was actually rather successful when you take everything into full consideration. as soon as the scuffle ended, he got up and finished the seminar unharmed.

    but maybe my explanation isn't good enough, and everything other people have said to vouch for Cheung's skills must be wrong, too. i hope any doubter lives near South Jersey because you can only really know by finding it out for yourself.

    also, i do want to point out that i am a "n00b" and probably going against the grain here. i will defend my art, though, but i do so honestly and humbly. if anything, i would hope more people can learn about good Wing Chun, come to my school, and make it a learning experience for both sides.
    funny how they were both supposed to be 'masters' of a stand up fighting style but ended up on the ground anyways...regardless of slippers or not, cheung claims to be able to 'stand on eggs without cracking the shells' so im sure he can manage to keep his balance on a slippy floor...emin bozteppe is gay though so loses by default...

    does anyone else have an opinion on this fight that they would like to share?
  7. Psycho Dad is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 10:22pm


     Style: BJJ/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what if it doesn't show how they got into a clinch, what's established is that Cheung wasn't exactly taken from behind or completely by surprise since he managed to get into a standing clinch. Where was the anti-grappling then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Newb1 View Post

    B) I could not beat a Judoka with Aikido. I could only beat an Aikidoka with Aikido. I thought that was understook.
  8. Gnosis is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 10:25pm


     Style: intuitive striker

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yah cheung is not no better but boozestep is the worst
  9. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 10:34pm

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     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnosis
    funny how they were both supposed to be 'masters' of a stand up fighting style but ended up on the ground anyways...regardless of slippers or not, cheung claims to be able to 'stand on eggs without cracking the shells' so im sure he can manage to keep his balance on a slippy floor...emin bozteppe is gay though so loses by default...

    does anyone else have an opinion on this fight that they would like to share?
    Everyone has bad days, we can grant this. But when two accomplished teachers go at it, you expect a high standard. I don't see how this is ambiguous.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  10. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/07/2006 10:36pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OKay, just one thing: JKD is NOT based on Wing Chun. It had more basis in boxing and fencing than any other art.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
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